+ Reply to Thread
Results 16 to 30 of 38
Discussion: World of Warcraft / World of Warcraft - General Discussion - Issue - 1. Whether someone has the gear and/or experience that qualifies them for a specific raid
-
10-16-2006, 03:31 PM #16
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- Minneapolis, MN
- Posts
- 1,735
Re: Issue
1. Whether someone has the gear and/or experience that qualifies them for a specific raid is a determination made by the Class Leader. Sometimes the RL may have specific input as to requirements (e.g. Tanks must have min. FR of XXX).
2. If you are unable to resolve a difference of opinion with your class leader, you may (as with any issue) raise a question with the guild's senior officers (Orion, Luna, Candrice or Beep). The easiest/best way to do this is a PM to one of us. Most of the time, we're going to defer to the class leader BUT we will do our best to be fair. We don't want to suggest that you can get what you want with an "end run" around the class leader. You will also notice that we are also class leaders.
3. Gear DOES matter. You cannot, for example, substitute skill or experience for FR for a tank against a fire-based boss attack. It matters to differing degrees for different instances, different bosses, different fights, different classes. The Class Leader is charged with responsibility for making these calls in consultation with the RL.
4. Don't confuse being allowed into a raid to fill the last spot or two with being fully qualified for the raid in question. Being able to raid the first few MC bosses doesn't mean you are ready to tackle Ragnaros.
5. While I will admit that the Tier 1 and 2 sets are not the end-all/be-all, that level of gear is first-rate, especially when you consider the set bonuses available. Again, it differs by class, so we expect the class leaders to know what alternatives may be acceptable.
6. Our experience and beliefs about a lot of this are likely to undergo dramatic transformation once the Expansion Pack arrives. So...here's what I'm expecting. We will all be so eager and enthralled to explore the new world and content that our current raid scheduling will be trashed for a while. With Outland to explore, MC will not seem very interesting or worthwhile. While we'll have to wait to see how it all plays out, those additional 10 levels of gear, spells, and talents will be extremely significant. Main characters will have a ball. Alts...who have pretty much been sidelined in favor of the mains...will NOT be adequately geared to play in the expanded world where the "normal" gear is better than most of what we have worked so hard to get for our mains. Remember, the alts have NOT been going to MC or BWL much at all. We don't know how Blizz will handle the current "end-game" instances...or if they will do anything at all differently.Beep
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)
-
10-16-2006, 04:01 PM #17
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
- Age
- 39
- Posts
- 746
Re: Issue
Siu - What kind of BC gear from leveling are you speaking of? I'm not disagreeing necc. just curious (I'd love to get an idea of what to expect). I'm not sure that I completely agree that you can get better gear in 20 mans than Tier 1. Maybe for some classes, but I haven't seen alot of priesty gear in ZG or AQ thats better than MC gear - some comparable pieces possibly.
And I agree 100% that you can supplement with rings, librams, enchants, etc. But you don't see a whole lot of people dropping the FR libram on a pair of level 56 green pants.
I also agree 100% that you can't inspect someone and determine what kind of player they are. But if someone shows up to MC with no Tier 0 (or equivalent) you can determine they haven't really spent much time in instances like scholo/strat/ubrs where playing a roll in a group is vital to the success of the group. That doesn't mean they won't learn that - but there is a learning curve and we shouldn't ignore that.
And I agree 1000% that a real leader is one that can work with strengths and weaknesses and maximize a class or raid. But having a recommended level of FR or "normal" gear still seems like a good idea. It doesn't have to be a hard and fast rule neccessarily. It can be equivalent pieces. The 2/8 Tier 2 seems really strange to me personally - especially given our progression at this point.
I was going to post something off-topic about BC gear, etc. but I'll just put up a separate post.Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
-
10-16-2006, 04:11 PM #18
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
- Syracuse, NY
- Age
- 45
- Posts
- 546
Re: Issue
In regards to MC vs. ZG/AQ gear, although the gear that drops in MC and BWL may not be the "best" for each class I think you have to give some consideration to what Blizzard was thinking as they designed the sets. Sometimes the bonuses seem odd but I can tell you that the Might 8/8 bonus would make tanking Vael much easier and would make it a lot tougher for people to pull aggro off of us. FWIW, it's an additional 15% threat to our sunders.
“Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook
-
10-16-2006, 04:48 PM #19
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- Minnesota
- Age
- 26
- Posts
- 1,361
Re: Issue
The Greens and Blues I have seen drop in Hellfire Citadel on the beta are extremely comparable to the Purples and Blues I spent many months gathering through MC, Ony, and the Various Dungeons.
Originally Posted by Pistos
I think this may be the culprit... Though I still don't have any real evidence to look at. Originally Posted by beep
If we bring a new level 60 into MC or BWL, just because there was an open slot, does not mean you have been grandfathered into that instance and you belong there. I believe it should be more viewed as a privalege. And also one should keep in mind that these instances never become a right. We have overfilled classes. This is a problem I myself struggle with because I did feel it should be a right for myself to be there, and I HAVE been fairly lucky in the sense that the days I can raid (Saturday and Sunday only) I often get to attend. However I attribute that to an understanding class, not a guild-granted right.
See, when you go to the Ice Cream Shop, and ask for one of those little spoon samples, you may get one, but the intent of the Ice Cream Shop was not to get you hooked on free spoon samples, but rather to give you the incentive to go out, and come back when you have enough money to buy a whole Ice Cream Cone. Eventually if you keep coming for your little spoon sample, they're going to cut you off, and indeed it hurts, but that's just how it works, if it really worked another, better way, you would think the general population of Ice Cream Shops would change their ways.RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!
Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.
I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak
-
10-16-2006, 06:14 PM #20
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Fort Worth
- Posts
- 119
Re: Issue
I would agree with many posts above that it should be based on the class leader's discretion. If that is disputed then it needs to channel up through the ranks as needed.
A player's knowledge and skill out trumps gear any day of the week. I have exactly zero Tier 1 and Tier 2 pieces and bet that at least a dozen or so guildies would vouch for my worthiness and ability to go on any raid and tackle any boss we have faced. With that being said, being a priest does not require insane FR gear like warriors like Beep has referenced so yes gear does play a role in some classes.
TG has done a good job with handling the "drama" that most guilds face and have kept things running smooth in my opinion. There is a "click" within TG but that is to be expected when a guild has been around as long as they have. Every guild is going to have people that rub others the wrong way and from your post Krish I'd say they got rubbed pretty good :PLub it on!!!
-
10-16-2006, 09:48 PM #21
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- California
- Posts
- 2,211
Re: Issue
I, too, would like to know the details of what happened because it seems like someone got the short end of the stick and was beaten with the long one.
Now with that being said we don't, technically, have gear lockouts but more of a gradual acceptance of members to the raid due to various influences.
If we're running ANYTHING and we find ourselves desperate for bodies the raid leader might just pull anyone who can go from the guild instead of giving preference to people who are properly geared and then pulling from outside sources for the remainder. This is based mostly on the raid leader's style of play and can differ from run to run. This is also a reaction to the complaints lodged a while back about people being willing to go on runs (even if not allowed due to experience and gear) and being looked over in preference of nonguildies with the proper gear and experience. The guildie vs nonguildie conflict is a reason why we may take unprepared guild members instead of looking outside for aide.
Another factor is the relatively current stink made over the supposed requirement for newly leveled 60s to spend some time learning their class fully and acquiring equipment on their own before taking part in raids. We've lost a few people because they felt it unfair they actually had to do 'practice runs' with their character instead of automatically getting a spot in raids because they're level 60. You know, because learning how to play properly and not screw the raid over in vital encounters is such a pain. In response to this we've started to see more 'teaser runs' made for people who realistically are not ready for the raids. A senior member generally steps out of their own accord and the newer unprepared member is allowed in the raid to get a feel for what lies ahead for them. This of course then becomes a problem as they feel they've been grandfathered into being allowed to raid because of their supposed experience.
This becomes more amusing when you get comments like "Don't bother healing <insert name here> they have crappy FR and they'll probably die right away. Don't waste your mana on them and just let them die" ^_^My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.
Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.
-
10-17-2006, 10:45 AM #22
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
- Age
- 39
- Posts
- 746
Re: Issue
Just for the record -- I have never seen anything like this come across any tells to me or in the tghealers channel. I don't want people constantly worried that they're gonna get jacked by the healers because of some vendetta. Originally Posted by Tarenth
Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
-
10-17-2006, 11:08 AM #23
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Saint Louis, MO
- Age
- 34
- Posts
- 881
Re: Issue
Yeah, no one has ever said that that I know of and thats BS if they have.
You heal everyone but Arkamis, we all know this!
Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic
TG WoW Home Page | TG Required Reading | The Irregulars | Irregulars Forum
-
10-17-2006, 11:26 AM #24
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
- Posts
- 439
Re: Issue
I have to disagree with Pistos on this...I, sometimes, go into the tghealers channel. I have seen them say "Don't heal Gaviin...he is a ninja!" Just reporting what I see! Originally Posted by Pistos
-
10-17-2006, 11:34 AM #25
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Age
- 31
- Posts
- 424
Re: Issue
Originally Posted by Altor
I have to disagree with Pistos on this...I, sometimes, go into the tghealers channel. I have seen them say "Don't heal Gaviin...he is a ninja!" Just reporting what I see!
I KNEW IT!
Ninja
-
10-17-2006, 11:37 AM #26
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- Georgia
- Posts
- 546
Re: Issue
LoL and they didnt charge me as much as i thought they would...
Candrice 63 Warrior
Ricca 70 Rogue
Machelle 70 Mage
Enya 74 Druid
-
10-17-2006, 11:58 AM #27
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
- Age
- 39
- Posts
- 746
Re: Issue
Originally Posted by Altor
I have to disagree with Pistos on this...I, sometimes, go into the tghealers channel. I have seen them say "Don't heal Gaviin...he is a ninja!" Just reporting what I see!LOL Altor! -- Shhhhhh Ricca Originally Posted by candrice
Ok Gav and Ark, but I swear thats it! Originally Posted by Sajier
Yeah, no one has ever said that that I know of and thats BS if they have.
You heal everyone but Arkamis, we all know this!Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
-
10-17-2006, 03:29 PM #28
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
- Syracuse, NY
- Age
- 45
- Posts
- 546
Re: Issue
Is that why you always send me whispers saying: Originally Posted by Pistos
"Who's your daddy?" and
"Without me you're nothing"
:P“Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook
-
10-17-2006, 03:56 PM #29
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
- Age
- 39
- Posts
- 746
Re: Issue
Na Bear - that's cause I think you're sexy. Nothing to do with the other issue. Originally Posted by TG_Bear
Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
-
10-17-2006, 04:05 PM #30
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The Boonies in Thornton TX
- Age
- 30
- Posts
- 361
Re: Issue
Wow um...overshare? Originally Posted by Pistos
|TG-Defiant| - It's you and me against the world. We attack at dawn.
You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you.
Reply With QuoteThread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
Bookmarks