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Discussion: World of Warcraft / World of Warcraft - General Discussion - BwL attempts... - Ok...
Long live to ZG/AQ!
*Gonna hit the road before more rocks are thrown on
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10-23-2006, 03:06 PM #46
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Re: BwL attempts...
Ok...
Long live to ZG/AQ!
*Gonna hit the road before more rocks are thrown on me* :P
/Bubble and hearth
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10-23-2006, 04:23 PM #47
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Re: BwL attempts...
My friend, one thing you should learn from posting in forums is NOT to back down just because a few people disagree. The majority of people dont even post. So those few that DO, dont represent ANY kind of statistical majority.
Originally Posted by Sacredlord
So keep posting. The goal is to brainstorm, not to squash the other man or run into a hole.
That being said, BWL is some of the most fun raiding I've ever had in TG. And I think with THIS post I AM representing the statistical majority.
As for slappin it up on the raid schedule with a mere point-click from an officer; how hard can that be? People may come, people may not. So what.
We shouldnt intend on catering to the same subset of people so they can make every raid. That would be stupid and not fun (as much as I love everyone, it's nice to meet and play with new blood).
I'm always for movin fwd. and gettin everyone into new gear and content, 'cause quite frankly... that's the ESSENCE of gaming. There is no point to it otherwise except to just kill time. The goal should always be having fun and moving on to the next level.
As for BWL, it will give us the most pound-for-pound gear, experience, and enjoyment WoW can give to a guild like us at this time. Not maximizing it would be silly.
And NO, we dont need oodles of gear to do it. After seeing Broodlord, it's even BETTER to NOT have good gear (those who fought him know).
20-mans instead of 40-mans?? Less hardcore?? I think not. They take the same effort for those who sign up. Adding more 40-mans just means more people need to show up... that's all. If you're worried about THAT then just have a 20-man as a backup, or vice versa (like we're gonna do tonite).
My last point is, "if you build it they will come". If we sit on our laurels obviously nothing will happen. All it takes is a point-click and things show up on the raid schedule. If the people dont show, we'll bitch and moan but there will always be other stuff to do. And eventually the raids will fill.
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10-23-2006, 05:29 PM #48
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Re: BwL attempts...
I agree, Siu. Sacred's proposed schedule would increase our 40-man raid nights from *four* to five (not from three, Sajier). So it's not a HUGE jump. But yeah, I certainly understand that some people wouldn't be able (or want) to put in that extra time. That's fine. Others may. BWL has been a blast for me, so if we can jump in there for an hour or two on Mondays, all the better. If not, then we can head over to ZG or AQ or whatever.
Ninja
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10-23-2006, 05:41 PM #49
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Re: BwL attempts...
We can put up 40 man raids 7 nights a week. But I think the majority of people will balk at that much time and it'll end up with a bunch of the raids not happening. And I know the MTs and all other key parts of the raid will feel pressured to make more than they can - even if its not intended that way.
Most of us want time away from the big raids. I'd like to see us do 3 nights in BWL at least every other week but it would need the majority of people to want to do it too. And there is always other things people want to do. 2 solid nights of BWL with our core group of people that raid is going to do better than 4 nights where those people get spread out and we're forced to use fill ins that are not experienced with those fights.
But I do agree with you Siu about brainstorming! Though in this case you're seeing some of the key people posting. And while that by no means is a statistical majority I would bet that you'll find that these percentages will stay pretty close to form across the rest of the guild.Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
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10-23-2006, 05:47 PM #50
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Re: BwL attempts...
Now there's an idea Pistos ... we could do 2 BWL + 1 MC one week and then the next week 3 BWL with no MC. That way we'd still be gearing up the folks who need the MC gear and getting more time in BWL. That might be the perfect comprimise. It doesn't add anymore to the schedule and it doesn't take away too much. Originally Posted by Pistos
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10-23-2006, 06:04 PM #51
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Re: BwL attempts...
I just want to clarify I'm not recommending skipping MC. I think we're getting the most bang for our buck from MC over anything else we do. Forgoing that any week would probably not be the best idea. Originally Posted by Kedera
Now there's an idea Pistos ... we could do 2 BWL + 1 MC one week and then the next week 3 BWL with no MC. That way we'd still be gearing up the folks who need the MC gear and getting more time in BWL. That might be the perfect comprimise. It doesn't add anymore to the schedule and it doesn't take away too much.
Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
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10-23-2006, 06:38 PM #52
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Re: BwL attempts...
Thanks for the comments...
I’m having a bad day with my boss “DPSing” my patience. :P
*On bird flying to point where we were before*
Unfortunately, I don’t think we are at the point to skip MC.
Even though I don’t need anything from MC, I’d rather do it 3 days a week – If it was possible regardless the instance reset thing – than BwL with most of us lacking their tier 1 set.
That being said, I loved the idea of scheduling BwL on monday AND, if we don’t have enough people, doing a 20 man instance instead.
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10-23-2006, 06:57 PM #53
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Re: BwL attempts...
Personally Gaviin and Sui, I feel a lot like Beep does, that I need to be at every 40 man because I play one of the "key" classes, our priests rock and we have solid numbers, but as a priest I also feel like I need to be there to help the guild, and well, I want to continue to have a life outside of the game so that I continue to enjoy my time IN game.
This schedule has 5 nights where 40 mans are run, 1 night of a 20 man (which I usually skip because others want to be there an I can relax for a night) and one night off. Thats a LOT of raiding and a lot of pressure on MTs and main healers and raid leaders to do a lot of stuff, not because they have to, but because they feel obligated to because of their positions and because they want to help the guild.
As much as you are telling Sacred to keep at it, don't minimize other opinions that are equally valid. I guarentee you I am not the only one who can't or doesn't want to raid 5-6 days a week.Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic
TG WoW Home Page | TG Required Reading | The Irregulars | Irregulars Forum
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10-23-2006, 07:24 PM #54
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Re: BwL attempts...
Mon -- BwL 7:30pm (2h dedicated to finish whatever we couldn’t on Sunday or any 20 man instance if we don’t get enough people);
Tue -- Ony 7:30pm + 20 man instance
Wed -- 20 man instance 7:30pm
Thu -- "Day off" (Lords, 20 man instance, farming...);
Fri --- BwL 7:30pm (Razorgore and Vael)
Sat -- BwL 7:30pm (Broodlord attempts)
Sun -- MC 7:30pm (BwL shots if we have time)
C’mon guys! Onyxia can’t be considered "a 40 man instance" for us anymore... TG always has something scheduled after Onyxia.
Serious 40 man raids in the proposed schedule are MC and BwL, Onyxia can easily be included in a rotation schedule.
This will let us with 3 raids a week, 4 depending on how many people we’ll have on monday.
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10-23-2006, 07:28 PM #55
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Re: BwL attempts...
thing is... the broodlord will be dead on friday (we took 2 shots on sunday... after 1shotting raz and 2shotting vael.... squish broodlord in on friday.. and we will be working at firemaw/ebonroc
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10-23-2006, 10:03 PM #56
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Re: BwL attempts...
Originally Posted by Sacredlord
Great point! And actually, I never really even looked at Ony as a 40-man/big deal raid. Many of you have seen people scrabbling for additional stuff to do afterwards.
As for those who would feel like they were missing out on a Raid and would feel bad or are gimping the raid, I cant really identify because in the Mage class there's enough of us that are steady raiders that I KNOW a quality toon will be there in my place.
If that's NOT the case in other classes, then you need to make it so. Strong classes mean more ability to get inserted into many situations and enable the guild to do more things. NO, it doesnt mean we need to recruit a 100 people... but perhaps a few holes need to be filled in gear, bodies, or compelling people to sign up where they otherwise wouldnt. Again, status quo is bad.
Also, let's not get the former mixed up with something a bit selfish. "Aww man, we shouldnt add raids because then I'd miss some!" That's a selfish statement; I'm not saying anyone said it... but it crosses ALL our minds when we cant do something we want - making raids as well.
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10-23-2006, 10:55 PM #57
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Re: BwL attempts...
....just another issue to consider...
We don't have that many raid leaders. Their role is harder and more stressful than just being there as a participant. While I don't want to speak for them, I know they already feel pushed at times to handle our current schedule.
As an issue entirely apart from raid attendance by the rank and file, we have to consider the well-being and enthusiasm needed by our Raid Leaders.
Again, while I think enthusiasm for "more" is good, it is an equally valid position that "about right" should be heard and honored as well.
P.S. FWIW, I am not seeing any NEW volunteers for leading from anyone...anyone...Buehler?Beep
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)
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10-23-2006, 11:16 PM #58
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Re: BwL attempts...
All I have to say is, it's easy for those of you who have 3+ 60's all fully MC equipped, and have raided MC countless times to say hey let's just skip MC, or push it to a night (Sunday) that some people can't attend that late. However for those of us still on our first 60 just beginning to voyage into MC and who are in desperate need of completing our sets, the thought of pushing MC to Sunday or even doing away with it every other week is not a good one. I understand the desire to branch out, attempt new things, but don't leave those trying to catch up behind in the dust to do it.
Just my 2 cents, feel free to rip it apart, as I know will happen...
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)
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10-24-2006, 02:09 AM #59
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Re: BwL attempts...
Hear hear! Originally Posted by beep
We definitely need more RLs, especially as the main RLs branch into tougher places like BWL, AQ40, and NAXX. Who will fill the roles for UBRS/AQ20/ZG/MC?? Who are to lead the multitude of raids during BC?
Perhaps we need a special day here and there for prospective RLs to LEARN from the existing ones? Like a guild RL-primer course. Learning how to use all the add-ons properly, etc.
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10-24-2006, 02:21 AM #60
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Re: BwL attempts...
As one of those who is/was WAY behind the gear-curve I can tell you: Originally Posted by RanulfWolfSage
All I have to say is, it's easy for those of you who have 3+ 60's all fully MC equipped, and have raided MC countless times to say hey let's just skip MC, or push it to a night (Sunday) that some people can't attend that late. However for those of us still on our first 60 just beginning to voyage into MC and who are in desperate need of completing our sets, the thought of pushing MC to Sunday or even doing away with it every other week is not a good one. I understand the desire to branch out, attempt new things, but don't leave those trying to catch up behind in the dust to do it.
Just my 2 cents, feel free to rip it apart, as I know will happen...
a) skipping MC entirely will never happen
b) MC is not the only way to progress in this game
c) if you check the schedule you'll see we're starting to change the days when MC takes place. This helps people who cant always get in on Sat.
You really have to look at every avenue to better your toon; Not just one dungeon. Also, as of NOW, MC is largely a place for new 60's to gain gear VERY fast. It's quite common to see people get 2 to 3 set-pieces (and set-pieces arent really even as valuable as u think) in one evening. So, it doesnt take that many runs to really improve yourself.
Of course, much of this depends on your class and what your role actually is. Also, which places you intend on spending a lot of your time.
There is no "desperate need" to complete a set. That is simply a desire to, so you can say you did. It doesnt make u a weaker player in many cases.
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