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Discussion: World of Warcraft / World of Warcraft - General Discussion - BC..BC..BC...sigh - Originally Posted by Tarenth So they compromise. They make the green and blue drops and
  1. #16


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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarenth View Post
    So they compromise. They make the green and blue drops and quest reward compete with the old hardcore raiding gear so the hardcore raiders would feel like there was a purpose in venturing into Outland. Will the hardcore raiders have an advantage over the casual gamers? Of course! If you think about it another way you have to realize that to be competitive in a land where you get greens and blues at the quality of epics you're going to want to have those epics to upgrade from. That...or a lot of friends to do everything in groups.
    Getting to 70 will be incentive enough for people to spend their non-raid time in Outlands. Blizz has said they want less soloing and more grouping to level. And yes, if greens are that quality, the epics will be damn nice.

    My point is this: why the sharp increase in item quality? Why do we feel the need to have GREEN 85 dps axes? If that's a green, then what's an epic gonna be like? And if an epic is gonna be 97 dps with 52 agi and 40 sta, why do we need that? The only answer I can think of is that the mobs we fight will require that kind of firepower. If that's the case... then forget it. When I leveled, I could take a mob 4-5 levels higher than me, and I was in mediocre gear. Now, even if I'm in Tier 2, apparantly I'm not going to be able to do that. That's a shame. I'm sure I'll adapt, but I doubt I'm going to like it. The more I hear about BC, the less I'm liking it, and the more I think that my WoW days are coming to an end.

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  3. #17

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkamis View Post
    Getting to 70 will be incentive enough for people to spend their non-raid time in Outlands. Blizz has said they want less soloing and more grouping to level. And yes, if greens are that quality, the epics will be damn nice.

    My point is this: why the sharp increase in item quality? Why do we feel the need to have GREEN 85 dps axes? If that's a green, then what's an epic gonna be like? And if an epic is gonna be 97 dps with 52 agi and 40 sta, why do we need that? The only answer I can think of is that the mobs we fight will require that kind of firepower. If that's the case... then forget it. When I leveled, I could take a mob 4-5 levels higher than me, and I was in mediocre gear. Now, even if I'm in Tier 2, apparantly I'm not going to be able to do that. That's a shame. I'm sure I'll adapt, but I doubt I'm going to like it. The more I hear about BC, the less I'm liking it, and the more I think that my WoW days are coming to an end.
    pffft. you know you don't mean that Ark. So what. a green axe is better than your stupid OEB. go figure! we'll be exploring new dungeons and stuff and find new gear that's even better than the uber greens.

    IF BC was the exact same as WoW was now, there'd be no point in buying it. Adapt, and overcome
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    I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

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  5. #18

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Guys,

    Do me a favor plz.

    STFU and play WoW.

    It's not BC Yet, and I'll tell you one thing, the level 67's running around are still wearing some MC / BWL Gear. It's not a bunch of freebies, just what you'd expect to get moving higher in level.

    Chill out.
    RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

    Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

    I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

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  7. #19


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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    I've already cancelled my account. My account expires December 10. I have until then to decide if I want to continue playing.

    Since I've played this game, I've seen Blizzard cater more and more to the kind of gamer I'm not. It's not necessarily a bad thing per se, it's just not what I want.

    The more information that comes out about the Burning Crusade, the less I'm liking the direction the game is heading.

    I love playing with everyone. I love raiding with everyone. That's what I want to do most in this game. My dreams in this game are to fell Nefarian, to fell C'Thun. I feel like my dreams have been cheapened by the fact that I can wait two or three levels and get loot that is a.) easier to get than what I might in the future get and b.) more of an upgrade than two levels worth should be. Thus, I feel like they're taking my raiding experience and changing it for a type of player I'm not. So, why continue playing?

    I love everyone here. I really, really do. And I'll never really leave, because this guild has become a family that I don't have IRL. But I somehow don't think I'll be doing so in game.

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  9. #20


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    Unhappy Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkamis View Post
    I've already cancelled my account. My account expires December 10. I have until then to decide if I want to continue playing.

    Since I've played this game, I've seen Blizzard cater more and more to the kind of gamer I'm not. It's not necessarily a bad thing per se, it's just not what I want.

    The more information that comes out about the Burning Crusade, the less I'm liking the direction the game is heading.

    I love playing with everyone. I love raiding with everyone. That's what I want to do most in this game. My dreams in this game are to fell Nefarian, to fell C'Thun. I feel like my dreams have been cheapened by the fact that I can wait two or three levels and get loot that is a.) easier to get than what I might in the future get and b.) more of an upgrade than two levels worth should be. Thus, I feel like they're taking my raiding experience and changing it for a type of player I'm not. So, why continue playing?

    I love everyone here. I really, really do. And I'll never really leave, because this guild has become a family that I don't have IRL. But I somehow don't think I'll be doing so in game.
    it really saddens me to hear this Ark... i know it may seem like Blizz is screwing you over and makeing better items easier to get which makes the hard work you put in seem like less....BUT, you said yourself you have dreams of Conquering Nef, and C'Thun, and whoever else. so i ask you, Ar eyou playing For the Gear? or are you playing for the Game? and I know most people are going to say both. You know as well as I do that Good Gear means NOTHING without Great Skill and Coodination. You know that one person can wipe a raid even with the magicalwtfpwnzoraxeofmightandsmiting. And instead of looking at the gear comming out in BC look at the new encounters, the new strategies, the new bosses, the new Epic gear. i dont think BC/outland is goign to be a cakewalk. Yes, BWL, AQ40, and Naxx will be much easier for many guild who have struggled tirelessly day in and day out for 6hours a day...but how many new experiences await all of us whent he expansion comes out.

    So i urge you and everyone to bide your time and wait for the expension comes out, and really think about, what you play for most....the Gear? ....or the Game?

    I personally cant wait...(there goes a few more years of my life )
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  11. #21

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    If you want to put it another way you can say this:

    "All the shiney epixxxs in the outlands won't help you take down BWL and AQ40 if you don't have your act together"

    I really want to see us down every single boss there is. Be it in the 40 mans which will be opened up more to the casual gamer with better gear to tackle it with or the newer stuff that will be a complete PAIN IN THE ARSE to get down.

    You have to look at it another way really. If you're playing this game from the sheer pleasure of seeing new content and taking it head on with success as your goal then the new and better BC gear is a blessing to the casual gamer. With the current limitations on gear and ability there is hardly any chance we could take on AQ40, let alone Naxx, with what we have now unless we suck it up and make the hardcore slog though MC and BWL to get everyone geared up so they wouldn't die faster than a messed up Vael fight. With better items and equipment we have more of a buffer and can tackle AQ40 and Naxx faster to get progress and learn as a group. Gear not as good? So what! That doesn't stop people from running UBRS 100 times after they have everything they need.
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    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


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  13. #22

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    Thumbs up Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Ark there will be many ways that we can make the older content exciting! What about a 30 man BWL or a 20 man MC? 10 man ZG for the hell of it? We will be doing it for the fun not the epics. And you know that we will be chasing Tier 4 and all new dungeons soon enough to make your head spin!


    Silchar (70 Retribution Paladin)
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  15. #23

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkamis View Post
    I've already cancelled my account. My account expires December 10. I have until then to decide if I want to continue playing.

    Since I've played this game, I've seen Blizzard cater more and more to the kind of gamer I'm not. It's not necessarily a bad thing per se, it's just not what I want.

    The more information that comes out about the Burning Crusade, the less I'm liking the direction the game is heading.

    I love playing with everyone. I love raiding with everyone. That's what I want to do most in this game. My dreams in this game are to fell Nefarian, to fell C'Thun. I feel like my dreams have been cheapened by the fact that I can wait two or three levels and get loot that is a.) easier to get than what I might in the future get and b.) more of an upgrade than two levels worth should be. Thus, I feel like they're taking my raiding experience and changing it for a type of player I'm not. So, why continue playing?

    I love everyone here. I really, really do. And I'll never really leave, because this guild has become a family that I don't have IRL. But I somehow don't think I'll be doing so in game.
    Ark, I honestly believe you aren't listening to your own words. If you love playing with everyone and taking down new content with your brethren and sisteren in arms, then do so. I think you've made up your mind without even seeing what BC will be like in final form. I think you may also have allowed too much to be invested in the specifics of the game rather than the broad experience. Getting another epic set of pixels is not the game. Being with your friends to discover and enjoy what the game designers have created IS the point.

    I dont' see what quitting gets you. As an act of protest, it has little impact except to take you away from many of us who enjoy your company and who want to have you along on our mutual gaming journey.

    In the final analysis, you'll do what you think you need to do. I'll do my best to give you full support in that, even if it means I won't see you in game. Please reconsider your decision, or at least give the expansion a couple of months of honest trial once it's released.
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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  17. #24

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    I look at BC (even though it's a blizz-business move), as The Quickening for guilds like us.

    No, we wont have to wait as long to get into AQ40 and Naxx as a GROUP, because everyone will have better stats and a few nicer pieces as they lvl. BUT, as I've thought it through... it doesnt mean AQ40/Naxx will be any easier, just the path to get there. This also holds true for MC/BWL.

    With the added content, the OLDER content is merely going to get compressed. Like 45-minute MC runs. BWL guild primers, etc.

    I kind of trashed Blizzard for doing this moreso because it's mainly a move to accomodate the Mob. But, as you think on it more, it's actually quite exciting even for end-game guilds.

    The CHALLENGE will be for squad leaders, raid leaders, and officers to keep pace with the new content. Guilds will become more of a collective, rather then a few powerful officers and RLs. As people become more powerful and geared, we need to push hard into the places we havent gone yet.

    (ok, i'm late for work now... more later)

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  19. #25


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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    So last night I did some thinking.

    The BC really will be cheapening my past experience. Just like a solider wears his scars with pride, I wear my gear with pride, not because its ZOMGBBQEPIX but because it's a mark of honor of what I've had to do, the toll and toil of it all. For me, regardless of what I'm doing -- school, WoW, life -- it's never been about the destination; it's about the drive. I have a story I'll tell some day about a $75 tank of gas I bought. I'm very proud of this story, not because I was a dumbass, but because despite being faced with a difficult task with pretty serious consequences, I overcame adversity and solved my problems through wit and will. If someone else were to buy a $75 tank of gas because they were simply a dumbass, then to me their story doesn't have the same value if they didn't have to risk spending a night outside in the mountains in December.

    Last night I went out, spent $15 (the equivalent of a monthly subscription to WoW) on beer, went home slightly drunk, talked to Kim for an hour and a half and got crappy sleep. That was really, really stupid.

    I suppose I'll continue playing because in all honesty, it's the most edifying thing I have in my life at the moment. You all are more an integral part of me than anyone else I know right now, and if I'm going to spend time with family, dammit I should spend time with family.

    But I'll still know deep down that the grand equalizing of the content in the BC has made everyone's destination the same, at the expense of those who drove harder to get there.

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  21. #26

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkamis View Post
    So last night I did some thinking.

    The BC really will be cheapening my past experience. Just like a solider wears his scars with pride, I wear my gear with pride, not because its ZOMGBBQEPIX but because it's a mark of honor of what I've had to do, the toll and toil of it all. For me, regardless of what I'm doing -- school, WoW, life -- it's never been about the destination; it's about the drive. I have a story I'll tell some day about a $75 tank of gas I bought. I'm very proud of this story, not because I was a dumbass, but because despite being faced with a difficult task with pretty serious consequences, I overcame adversity and solved my problems through wit and will. If someone else were to buy a $75 tank of gas because they were simply a dumbass, then to me their story doesn't have the same value if they didn't have to risk spending a night outside in the mountains in December.
    ...

    But I'll still know deep down that the grand equalizing of the content in the BC has made everyone's destination the same, at the expense of those who drove harder to get there.
    Ark, I didn't want to get all literary and philosophical, but dammit, you made me do it

    Approaching WoW with the concept of "destination" or "ending" (or "telos" as they say in Greek philosophy) is flawed. Teleologically confronting an endless situation is not going to get you anywhere. Intrinsic finality is irrelevent to WoW because, again, the spectre of an "ending" is eternally elusive. Rather, what we are all doing is closer to extrinsic finality - working together to facilitate *perceived* movement toward a shared "goal" - a completely constructed and contrived one, which there is, realistically, no possible way of achieving. We do it... well... to do it! Together!

    Think of the Big Bang, or of postmodern conceptions of reality as "rhizomatic" - there is no set, identifiable beginning point. Rather, we provisionally accept, as a group, a constructed center point, and proceed to build a more-or-less organic system around said center point. We have, at this point, completely invented a paradigm, but that doesn't stop us from living in it, because we have to (Yes, I'm aware that this is a game we can stop playing at any time, but all that would do is remove a limb from your OWN provisional system). The fact that we begin from an unidentifiable center presupposes that there is, in parity, no final end.

    I'm getting to the point, relax.

    After the Big Bang, the universe spiraled out in all directions from an unknown center, sort of like The Burning Crusade will do for the WoW universe. Eventually, even though it looked like crap and was a seemingly insane, contradictory, brutal collection of gas and stars, the universe produced Homo Sapiens (let's keep this focused on the topic, apologies if anyone disagrees with evolution... this is just my opinion.) Just because something looks like hell doesn't mean it can't yield something worthwhile.

    My point, Ark: There will never be a point where we reach "the end". There will always be more - more room to learn, to fight, to explore, to loot. Seeing BC as an "ending" that all players - raiders or casuals - are "driving" toward serves only to downplay the real reason we are here: to hang out, argue, kill stuff and have a good time together. You said it yourself: Enjoy the drive! In a really, really big van full of people wearing heavy armor and... er... shooting fire from their hands.

    It's all about creating a system that works within the chaos... and it wouldn't be a very fun system without ya


    "What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow out of this stony rubbish? Son of man, you cannot say, or guess, for you know only a heap of broken images, where the sun beats, and the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief, and the dry stone no sound of water." --T.S. Eliot

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  23. #27

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrod View Post
    Ark, I didn't want to get all literary and philosophical, but dammit, you made me do it

    Approaching WoW with the concept of "destination" or "ending" (or "telos" as they say in Greek philosophy) is flawed. Teleologically confronting an endless situation is not going to get you anywhere. Intrinsic finality is irrelevent to WoW because, again, the spectre of an "ending" is eternally elusive. Rather, what we are all doing is closer to extrinsic finality - working together to facilitate *perceived* movement toward a shared "goal" - a completely constructed and contrived one, which there is, realistically, no possible way of achieving. We do it... well... to do it! Together!

    Think of the Big Bang, or of postmodern conceptions of reality as "rhizomatic" - there is no set, identifiable beginning point. Rather, we provisionally accept, as a group, a constructed center point, and proceed to build a more-or-less organic system around said center point. We have, at this point, completely invented a paradigm, but that doesn't stop us from living in it, because we have to (Yes, I'm aware that this is a game we can stop playing at any time, but all that would do is remove a limb from your OWN provisional system). The fact that we begin from an unidentifiable center presupposes that there is, in parity, no final end.

    I'm getting to the point, relax.

    After the Big Bang, the universe spiraled out in all directions from an unknown center, sort of like The Burning Crusade will do for the WoW universe. Eventually, even though it looked like crap and was a seemingly insane, contradictory, brutal collection of gas and stars, the universe produced Homo Sapiens (let's keep this focused on the topic, apologies if anyone disagrees with evolution... this is just my opinion.) Just because something looks like hell doesn't mean it can't yield something worthwhile.

    My point, Ark: There will never be a point where we reach "the end". There will always be more - more room to learn, to fight, to explore, to loot. Seeing BC as an "ending" that all players - raiders or casuals - are "driving" toward serves only to downplay the real reason we are here: to hang out, argue, kill stuff and have a good time together. You said it yourself: Enjoy the drive! In a really, really big van full of people wearing heavy armor and... er... shooting fire from their hands.

    It's all about creating a system that works within the chaos... and it wouldn't be a very fun system without ya
    /signed.

    Even though i had to read it two times just to make sure he wasn't making up words or stuff.

    Besides... think of it this way... Didn't Lawbringer make Lightforge worthless? Didn't Judgement make Lawbringer Worthless? Gears gonna get better. it's just the way it works.

    I agree with Vin. Let's just play the bloody game.
    _________________



    I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

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  25. #28

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    I've read Amrod's post 7 times (you have to understand I'm just a dumb ass knuckle dragger) to make sure I got it right! Anyway, after digesting his post I'll offer the following comment directed at all of us, myself included.

    We have a veritable buttload of bosses in BWL that we haven't killed. How bout we all stop bitching, whining, pissing, moaning, crying and lamenting. Let's strap on some armor, buff up some intellect, fill our quivers and get our collective asses into that place and clear it. I think our performance in BWL as a guild in BWL has been somewhat dissappointing given the gear and talent on this roster. Let's set a guild goal and see if we're as good as we profess to be.

    Neph must die before the BC!!!

    Are ya with me?
    “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

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  27. #29

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Since even the Beta Testers have a limited view of the BC "reality", none of us REALLY knows what that is all about. If I go back into my memory (faulty though that may be), I can remember the 50 something grind...getting better skills/talents/gear...but tuning out the Strat/Scholo/UBRS/LBRS/etc. events because I wasn't there yet. Then getting there...with dozens and dozens of spur-of-moment 3-5 man parties for quests...and repeated instance runs with smaller groups. That was some of the "best" times in the game...very, VERY different from our current state...but nonetheless fun/entertaining/rewarding in both game and relationship terms.

    I see that BC's "focus" holds the promise of more quests, much more craftable gear, new classes/races, and many more 5-20 man events. I welcome such a change and what (in organizational terms) may be a return to the "good old days" when we could cobble up a party in guild chat for a couple of hours of instance partying with your guild-mates.

    I am grateful that they designed an expansion AWAY from the 40 man raid model. While I take huge pleasure from our 40 man events, I ALSO miss the smaller stuff (5 man parties in particular). I'm looking forward to discovering what BC has to offer. I'm tending toward optimism because Blizz has a HUGE 7,000,000 subscriber base to keep interested. They've done focus groups and market research to guide their thinking and game dynamic design to appeal to both the casual and the "hardcore". Most of us tend to be the latter, but I welcome a chance to spend some quality time with my guildmates that doesn't have to be scheduled a week in advance.

    Bring it on!!!
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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  29. #30

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    Re: BC..BC..BC...sigh

    Beep is singularly impressed with Amrod's post and hopes one day to be ontologically attuned with it!!!
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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