So we are now forcing people to go to BWL??

Altor · 11-12-2006, 12:53 PM

That is what you are doing with these Random 40's.

Lepmesiah · 11-12-2006, 01:04 PM

I wouldnt say forcing, but it is like lotto. You never know what you will end up doing.

Gaviin · 11-12-2006, 01:54 PM

I think another purpose of it is to free up our options each night. We won't be locked out of MC due to the schedule if we just don't have the turnout for BWL on a particular night. That way the people who have taken the time out of their lives to show up won't be shafted as often. It's a good thing.

**luna** · 11-12-2006, 02:07 PM

Forcing? You're saying that like we're the Gestapo, demanding you do our bidding. We are trying the random 40 idea, as suggested by numerous guild members, to open up our options on where we can go on an evening, depending on the turnout. We have had numerous evenings where raids needed to be called due to a shortage of people for BWL. With the random 40, that night is not wasted- we can go to MC instead, or try something totally different.

Do we need to make new ideas into such a dramatic event? No one is forcing anyone to do ANYTHING. We're here for eachother, to work together. If you have no interest in ever going to a particular 40 man instance, then I don't know what to say about this upcoming week. I would have hoped that the instance we went to would matter alot less than the company we're surrounded with while we play.

Why the hostility?

Manny · 11-12-2006, 02:31 PM

I guess if you want to be horribly negative, we could say it's a way of forcing.
I mean, if we have 40 people... I'm going to hijack the raid and head off to BWL.
If people get upset and drop group because they don't want to go to BWL... and i'm suddenly left without enough to do BWL... i'll pass leadership back to chair and we go to MC, having just learned that we don't have enough interest in BWL to actually go there.

No reason to be negative though.

**Tarenth** · 11-12-2006, 06:13 PM

Of course there's that whole gear and attunement thing to work on to make sure the 40 people who are signed up can really go...but meh.

In Soviet Russia TG doesn't ask you to go to BWL, you ask TG to go to BWL!

Sorry Otterly, had to do it.

**Vinzalf** · 11-12-2006, 06:53 PM

Heaven Forbid!

This thread is rediculous. It plainly displays one reason I do not raid with TG anymore. If you want to raid, RAID.

Saying that you'll go one place with no problem but refusing to go to another instance, and then trying to make it out to be a subtle plot by the Officer's to trick you maliciously, is anti-progressional. Not only just for yourself, (Which by all means, bar yourself from certain instances, with negative attitudes towards something come negative results.), but for the entire group of raiding guild members as well.

ZariusZer0 · 11-12-2006, 07:02 PM

See, i'm of the opposite view myself. I find BWL fun. I find Molten Core mindnumbingly boring. I hate raiding MC, but i enjoy the banter, when we're moving quickly, and i know it's a necessary evil to actually move on to the fun encounters in the higher end instances. So i slug through it when i can, helping the guild gear up, so we can take BWL. But no matter how much we do in MC, that wont' get us farther in BWL, if we dont' try to get the people for BWL. I know that personally, if we don't keep doing BWL, i'm gonna stop showing up for MC.

That said, this is currently a test, to see what happens, see what results we get. Depending on how it works, and what informatin it gives, we'll see what we do. If you have a better solution to get people to be willing to come to BWL, then I know i for one would love to hear it.

**Gambit7** · 11-12-2006, 09:03 PM

I'm interested in this tests' outcome. But by simply analyzing the MC turnout lately you can be assured that BWL wont be a possible hijack in the beginning of the evening.

Lately, MC raids have only been filled near the last boss. Obviously, this translates into less flexibility and "random 40" really meaning Ony or MC.

The compromise between all this is what we did this past weekend with simply going to BWL after a good MC run when the grp was full. This could actually be done both nights (if MC were split).

Altor · 11-12-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luna

Forcing?

Why the hostility?

Yes...forcing. Do I want to go to BWL..No...Do I need to go to MC..Yes. Maybe those of us who need MC should see if there are any other guilds that have some open spots for MC.

The leadership of this guild is so determined to complete BWL that they would force people to have no life. I thought this was a casual raiding guild. So now, If I want to go to MC, I will have to sign up for every "random" raid and hope for the best. I guess that means I won't be able to go out to dinner with my wife, or maybe go to a movie. Maybe you should take it as the guild as a whole doesn't want to do BWL right now.

As for your comment "Why the hostility?"...I made a statement that wasn't hostile at all. What you are doing to this guild is hostile.

Icsist · 11-12-2006, 09:36 PM

Is a good idea, although, bad weekend... I will be up north hunting all weekend, and I see Chair will be too..

good luck on this though, i think its an awesome idea.

Manny · 11-12-2006, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altor

Yes...forcing. Do I want to go to BWL..No...Do I need to go to MC..Yes. Maybe those of us who need MC should see if there are any other guilds that have some open spots for MC.

The leadership of this guild is so determined to complete BWL that they would force people to have no life. I thought this was a casual raiding guild. So now, If I want to go to MC, I will have to sign up for every "random" raid and hope for the best. I guess that means I won't be able to go out to dinner with my wife, or maybe go to a movie. Maybe you should take it as the guild as a whole doesn't want to do BWL right now.

As for your comment "Why the hostility?"...I made a statement that wasn't hostile at all. What you are doing to this guild is hostile.

From what i understood, The question as to whether we want to do BWL was put to the guild, and the vast majority said yes.

IF you're in need of MC, that's fine... but alot of people aren't still in need of MC, alot of people want to see BWL. Seeing as how i usually see about 30 people sign up for BWL, that means that if we just stopped doing BWL, we'd probably lose 30 people.

We can't make everybody happy all the time, but we can try. Sorry if you view this as hostile, Altor, but it's a necessary move if we want to keep a large majority of our raiding team happy.
I'm not saying that we only want the 30 or so raiders that i'm talking about happy, but i am saying that if they were to pack up and leave to look for a guild that's actually progressing, We stop doing MC.

See where I'm coming from?

**Alava** · 11-12-2006, 09:46 PM

In all fairness, i'm sure the officers wants what's best for the guild to move foward in the game. And the next step after you have mastered MC is BWL. It's not like they are saying "hey let's stop doing MC and focus totally on BWL". They are just asking for the guild to work together to better itself and help move Tactical Gamer foward to a new horizon. If that means making raids "random 40" to help get people's interest up, then there is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes everyone just needs to sit back and ask themselves "how can i help the guild out" instead of "what should i do for MYSELF next". Any guild you look at now adays has stopped MC completely for the next level of end game raiding. So sometimes it's an honor to still be doing MC at all, simple as that.

Altor · 11-12-2006, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alava

If that means making raids "random 40" to help get people's interest up, then there is nothing wrong with that.

But you're not getting interest up...you are forcing people to go on BWL raids when they would rather do MC (or something else). And it's not like it's random. I think everyone know's what's going on here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alava

how can i help the guild out

I've done that since I first came to this guild. I give until I can no longer give (with or without thanks). Since no one is looking out for me, I might as well stop bending over and speak up.

What you are asking is for CASUAL raiders to give up even more of their time to get what they need (for me, it's MC). Do I want to raid all weekend...no. Would I like to choose where I want to raid...yes. We have a core group of raiders that don't miss a raid. Do I have the time these people have to spend on raids? Hell no...and I wouldn't want to if I did. What you will end up doing by all of this is keep that core group of 30 raiders and lose the rest. I guess it really doesn't matter that much since we are obviously dead weight and won't be needed once the 25-man instances come out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alava

So sometimes it's an honor to still be doing MC at all, simple as that

That is a horrible line. <sarcasm>I am so honored to be in a guild that is even considering still doing MC. </sarcasm>If the leadership really has this attitude, watch the guild be torn apart quickly.

Altor · 11-12-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manetheren

From what i understood, The question as to whether we want to do BWL was put to the guild, and the vast majority said yes.

IF you're in need of MC, that's fine... but alot of people aren't still in need of MC, alot of people want to see BWL. Seeing as how i usually see about 30 people sign up for BWL, that means that if we just stopped doing BWL, we'd probably lose 30 people.

So, keep the 30 people happy, and how many are left? What if all of those people left?

11-12-2006, 12:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
Altor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 439	So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? That is what you are doing with these Random 40's.

11-12-2006, 01:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lepmesiah Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: O hi O Posts: 78	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? I wouldnt say forcing, but it is like lotto. You never know what you will end up doing. __________________ "As Above, So Below"

11-12-2006, 01:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
Gaviin Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Age: 28 Posts: 857	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? I think another purpose of it is to free up our options each night. We won't be locked out of MC due to the schedule if we just don't have the turnout for BWL on a particular night. That way the people who have taken the time out of their lives to show up won't be shafted as often. It's a good thing. __________________ Ninja

11-12-2006, 02:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
luna Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rhode Island Age: 30 Posts: 4,136	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? Forcing? You're saying that like we're the Gestapo, demanding you do our bidding. We are trying the random 40 idea, as suggested by numerous guild members, to open up our options on where we can go on an evening, depending on the turnout. We have had numerous evenings where raids needed to be called due to a shortage of people for BWL. With the random 40, that night is not wasted- we can go to MC instead, or try something totally different. Do we need to make new ideas into such a dramatic event? No one is forcing anyone to do ANYTHING. We're here for eachother, to work together. If you have no interest in ever going to a particular 40 man instance, then I don't know what to say about this upcoming week. I would have hoped that the instance we went to would matter alot less than the company we're surrounded with while we play. Why the hostility? __________________ Resurgent's New Motivational Motto: "Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!" Jesus had a soulstone.

11-12-2006, 02:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
Manny Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Mb, Canada, North America,Earth, A little ways off from center of the Orion Arm of the Milky Way. Age: 24 Posts: 1,209	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? I guess if you want to be horribly negative, we could say it's a way of forcing. I mean, if we have 40 people... I'm going to hijack the raid and head off to BWL. If people get upset and drop group because they don't want to go to BWL... and i'm suddenly left without enough to do BWL... i'll pass leadership back to chair and we go to MC, having just learned that we don't have enough interest in BWL to actually go there. No reason to be negative though. __________________ _________________ I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

11-12-2006, 06:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tarenth Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,199	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? Of course there's that whole gear and attunement thing to work on to make sure the 40 people who are signed up can really go...but meh. In Soviet Russia TG doesn't ask you to go to BWL, you ask TG to go to BWL! Sorry Otterly, had to do it. __________________ My sanity is not in question... It was a confirmed casualty some time ago. \|TG\|Tarenth Battlefield 2142 Mirra World of Warcraft Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.

11-12-2006, 06:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Vinzalf Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minnesota Age: 23 Posts: 1,760	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? Heaven Forbid! This thread is rediculous. It plainly displays one reason I do not raid with TG anymore. If you want to raid, RAID. Saying that you'll go one place with no problem but refusing to go to another instance, and then trying to make it out to be a subtle plot by the Officer's to trick you maliciously, is anti-progressional. Not only just for yourself, (Which by all means, bar yourself from certain instances, with negative attitudes towards something come negative results.), but for the entire group of raiding guild members as well. __________________ RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!! Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows. I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

11-12-2006, 07:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
ZariusZer0 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 185	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? See, i'm of the opposite view myself. I find BWL fun. I find Molten Core mindnumbingly boring. I hate raiding MC, but i enjoy the banter, when we're moving quickly, and i know it's a necessary evil to actually move on to the fun encounters in the higher end instances. So i slug through it when i can, helping the guild gear up, so we can take BWL. But no matter how much we do in MC, that wont' get us farther in BWL, if we dont' try to get the people for BWL. I know that personally, if we don't keep doing BWL, i'm gonna stop showing up for MC. That said, this is currently a test, to see what happens, see what results we get. Depending on how it works, and what informatin it gives, we'll see what we do. If you have a better solution to get people to be willing to come to BWL, then I know i for one would love to hear it. __________________ Currently Playing: Age of Conan - Xercos (80 HoX), Miklos (57 ToS) TF2 - Zarius Occasionally Dabbling: Natural Selection - \|TG\|ZariusZer0 Dystopia - \|TG\|ZariusZer0 BF 2142 - \|TG\|ZariusZer0 No Longer Playing: WoW - Deleo

11-12-2006, 09:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 32 Posts: 2,198	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? I'm interested in this tests' outcome. But by simply analyzing the MC turnout lately you can be assured that BWL wont be a possible hijack in the beginning of the evening. Lately, MC raids have only been filled near the last boss. Obviously, this translates into less flexibility and "random 40" really meaning Ony or MC. The compromise between all this is what we did this past weekend with simply going to BWL after a good MC run when the grp was full. This could actually be done both nights (if MC were split). __________________

11-12-2006, 09:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
Icsist Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Amherst, WI Age: 28 Posts: 315	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? Is a good idea, although, bad weekend... I will be up north hunting all weekend, and I see Chair will be too.. good luck on this though, i think its an awesome idea. __________________ QUOTE : "Icsist has a little shameless behavior in the past" Nice remark guys.

11-12-2006, 09:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
Alava Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL (where ever second can be a new season) Age: 28 Posts: 480	Re: So we are now forcing people to go to BWL?? In all fairness, i'm sure the officers wants what's best for the guild to move foward in the game. And the next step after you have mastered MC is BWL. It's not like they are saying "hey let's stop doing MC and focus totally on BWL". They are just asking for the guild to work together to better itself and help move Tactical Gamer foward to a new horizon. If that means making raids "random 40" to help get people's interest up, then there is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes everyone just needs to sit back and ask themselves "how can i help the guild out" instead of "what should i do for MYSELF next". Any guild you look at now adays has stopped MC completely for the next level of end game raiding. So sometimes it's an honor to still be doing MC at all, simple as that. __________________ Thunderhorn: 70 Night Elf Priest-Lunaar(holy) 70 Human Mage-Alava(Fire) 70 Night Elf Hunter-Insai(Beast Master) 70 Dwarf Paladin-Ginoldor(Protection) 70 Human Warrior-Revenged(Protection) 70 Draenei Shaman-Tianora(Elemental) 70 Draenei Shaman-Fayrel(Restoration) Gilneas: 50 Undead Priest-Eikyl(Shadow)

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