Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. - Page 2

Halten · 01-25-2007, 06:03 PM

Your build looks good, but you're going to have a tough time with rage without Endless Rage.

**TG_Bear** · 01-26-2007, 10:35 AM

It seems to me that in an effort to appease the PvP whiners that Blizzard absolutely bitch slapped the ability for the Warrior class to generate rage. As Halten said, rage generation without Endless Rage makes dps much tougher now. If you're going to grind and level as a Prot spec you can do it, you just need endless patience. Even as an Arms/Fury spec its substantially more difficult now.

I understand why Blizzard took this course but what I don't understand is why they only addressed half the issue. If they wanted to pull back on the dps side they absolutely needed to buff the snot out of prot. Unfortunately, not only did they not buff Prot, they buffed other classes tanking ability. IMO Druid's and Pali's are on almost the same level as Warriors when it comes to tanking effectiveness now. In fact, they might have an edge because of the other abilities (buffs) they bring to the table. The only thing they lack is the overall mitigation.

I guess that's the reason Bearamar has been on the shelf since December. He just doesn't bring that much to the table anymore

**beep** · 01-26-2007, 12:08 PM

In order to try out a different angle on this, I have respecced Beep to 0/41/13 (at the moment), keeping most of the protection "goodness" for aggro generation, but dual-wielding (Quel + some green dagger) for most grinding. Future points (at least 2 more) are slotted for Protection. I've ground out most of a level and tanked blood furnace and the mid-level instance (name escapes me) next to slave pens while using this spec.

So far...I definitely take more damage...but my dps is up from 100 or so to around 185-225 or so...peaks around 300...with generally crap DPS gear (crit chance only around 13.5%) and around 1,000 AP unbuffed.

Grinding out mobs is definitely faster...especially if partnered with a pally who can touch-up heal. Otherwise, I'm eating/bandaging a LOT more.

Keeping aggro on a single mob if I start on him is not an issue. Getting aggro away from another player if I'm in battle stance and coming late to the party is much tougher, especially if my bloodrage is on cooldown.

In defensive stance, things are about the same as before. No shield slam...but I have bloodthirst (albeit without rampage while in defensive stance) that produces about the same damage on the same 6 second cooldown as shield slam.

I chose Fury over Arms build because I felt I could keep "more" points in Protection and still get the 41 point talent. I may try a Mortal Strike build if I get a nice two-hander.

So...wrapping up...questing/leveling seems faster with a dual-wield spec, but more expensive in terms of food and bandages. Instance running (so far) isn't too bad, but I'm definitely working harder to manage aggro than before. Once I hit level 70 and the round of reinstancing on heroic mode...with the aim of moving to 10 and 25 person raids...I'll be headed back to protection. Its damage mitigation and aggro management is still the best, imo, for a tanking warrior. Offtanking still has plenty of viability with the other specs.

Anah · 01-27-2007, 09:50 AM

I've been tanking on Smed a lot lately. Just some things to remember - Paladins hold aggro by getting hit and hurting the other guy when they get hit. They have talents that increase aggro generation of HOLY damage. In these new instances Ive come across a couple bosses with some Holy resistance. This seriously nerfs the ability to hold aggro on those bosses. The other thing to remember is that you can't hit as soon on a pally's mob, he has to build a hate margin up to stay on the pally. It goes back to simple rules we should all be following.
1. If you don't want the mob to come after you, hit the mob that is on a tank.
2. If you hit a mob that is not being hit actively by the tank, it will come after you.
3. If the tank has to chase your mob, the other mobs are not taking damage from the tank and will chase somebody who hits them.

The Pally taunt has been working marginally, especially when the person who pulled the mob off is still hitting it.

Halten · 01-27-2007, 02:53 PM

I respecced to 34/23/0 (atm). Without endless rage its not TOO bad. But against level 69 mobs, my damage generally sucks. I say if you get a HARD hitting two hander (~350 top end or so), you could have a viable MS build without ER.

**beep** · 01-29-2007, 04:16 PM

Update:

1. My spec is 2/41/13 (level 65). 13+ protection points buys me most of the threat bonuses for aggro management. Full protection gives you faster cooldowns, more damage mitigation and a few purely tanking goodies...at the price of DPS.
2. I've successfully tanked in this spec for instances...Ramparts, Blood Furnace, Slave Pens, Underbog and Mana Tombs. Aggro management is touchier, but acceptable.
3. I carry two different sets of gear...DPS for battle stance and tanking gear for defensive stance.
4. Party time = tanking in defensive stance MOST of the time, where the warrior's job is holding aggro and NOT faster killing. Solo & questing is almost exclusively battle stance/dual-wield where speedy kills are more important.
5. My dual-wield DPS is 200-300 DPS depending on the mob, and 100 or so if in defensive stance with sword-n-board. (Hey! Stop that snickering all you DPS classes!!!)
6. Holding aggro in defensive stance is not a huge issue, but does require a bit of care. With an "aware" party (one who can tackle designated targets in sequence), I can hold aggro on 2 or even 3 mobs while the others are zerged down by the group.
7. Questing/grinding while dual-wielding requires much more frequent bandaging/eating...every 2-3 mobs or so...vs. full-protection spec grinding (every 3-5 mobs or so)...but it's much faster.

Bottom line...warrioring in the expansion still works! You CAN still tank! In fact, I'm finding that demand for tanking in parties is strong...based partly on the shortage of tanking-types, but also because tanks and healers are still needed party roles for efficient instancing. I'm taking nothing from feral druids or pallys, but they are not as "specialized" as a warrior.

My thinking is to keep leveling in this spec to level 70, at which point I will respec back to protection for the ultimate in tankage goodness once we start heroic mode 5-man dungeons, pointing toward 10-25 man raids.

Delg · 01-30-2007, 12:17 PM

well, I did it and i am finding a bit of a rage accumulation issue but i have definetly seen a massive improvement in my dps.. and a decrease in my effeciveness as a tank.. with a solid group this isnt a problem as they focus fire on the right mobs but i have found with pugs when ppl tend to do free for all it is almost impossible to keep multiple mobs entertained. the 26s shield wall r0XX0rs though.. that can last the last 20% of a boss usually. also i have found that the new gear focusing on stam and def (champion attribute) lends itself to fairly good damage mitigation. not sure how long i will keep it as in higher instances (eg crypts) without a solid group it would be almost impossible. Though i must say fighting a fel reaver second wind is a must.

**beep** · 01-30-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delg

well, I did it and i am finding a bit of a rage accumulation issue but i have definetly seen a massive improvement in my dps.. and a decrease in my effeciveness as a tank.. with a solid group this isnt a problem as they focus fire on the right mobs but i have found with pugs when ppl tend to do free for all it is almost impossible to keep multiple mobs entertained. the 26s shield wall r0XX0rs though.. that can last the last 20% of a boss usually. also i have found that the new gear focusing on stam and def (champion attribute) lends itself to fairly good damage mitigation. not sure how long i will keep it as in higher instances (eg crypts) without a solid group it would be almost impossible. Though i must say fighting a fel reaver second wind is a must.

What's your new spec?

Delg · 02-01-2007, 12:04 PM

the one i posted at the start of the thread.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...33022000000000

**TG_Bear** · 02-01-2007, 02:52 PM

Delg,

That should be a fairly solid hybrid spec. There's only a couple of changes that I'd make. I'd pull the 5 points out of Anticipation. In my opinion, an additional 20 defense is nominal when compared to the joy of Tactical Mastery and Improved Bloodrage. You'd be able to charge in and generate a bunch of rage, then pop IB and you've got rage to burn! I'd also move the 3 points from Improved Heroic Strike and move them into Improved Charge and complete Second Wind. This way when you're grinding you get some additional rage and you're able to use that Mortal Strike that much quicker.

Delg · 02-02-2007, 03:30 AM

yes i am realizing that now especially with the new gear that is out.. even taking into account the level reducing the effectiveness of +def i am still at about 438 def in my hybrid tank gear (not full def but not full dps).. but i just finally managed to buy myself the epic riding mount and am completly broke.. i will not be respeccing until 70 and that will be to a 11/0/50 build.

Delg · 02-03-2007, 03:21 PM

With the 70th level soon approaching i figured i would also share my final proposed tank build. let me know your thoughts and ideas. post your idea for build.. lets figures some stuff out.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...33022123031351

having seen the beauty that is anger management i figured dropping a point from my origianl 51prot build (at 60) to get it was worth it. now i have actually toyed with trying to get imp revenge and imp Heroic strke.. maybe taking some points out of imp def stance (for imp rev) and deflection for the imp hs. please post some ideas and or builds.. when 70 comes i want to have it ironed out.

Delg · 10-15-2007, 03:07 AM

*casts Resurrection*
ok so i have been contemplating a new build. as i have seen how important Heroic strike is to keep up for aggro purposes.. so i figured Imp HS is a good idea.. while i was at it i noticed some talents i chose.. while nice in the lower level mobs are quite useless in the higher instances where all mobs are immune (silence from imp SB, 15% fear/charm resist which i have never once resisted a fear or charm). so with that in mind i ask fellow warriors to take a look at my new build idea and give me some feedback.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...33022113031351

**Tonk** · 10-15-2007, 09:30 AM

zomg bump old post plz.. a new thread woulda worked =P

Aeryck · 10-15-2007, 11:53 AM

Noob alt tank here (Proton), so give it the minimal amount of respect.

No cruelty or 1-handed weapon specialization seems like it would seriously drop your threat generation. I wouldn't give up either to save a couple rage points.

01-25-2007, 06:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
Halten Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 466	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. Your build looks good, but you're going to have a tough time with rage without Endless Rage. __________________ Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core! BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON! TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

01-26-2007, 10:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
TG_Bear Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Age: 42 Posts: 504	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. It seems to me that in an effort to appease the PvP whiners that Blizzard absolutely bitch slapped the ability for the Warrior class to generate rage. As Halten said, rage generation without Endless Rage makes dps much tougher now. If you're going to grind and level as a Prot spec you can do it, you just need endless patience. Even as an Arms/Fury spec its substantially more difficult now. I understand why Blizzard took this course but what I don't understand is why they only addressed half the issue. If they wanted to pull back on the dps side they absolutely needed to buff the snot out of prot. Unfortunately, not only did they not buff Prot, they buffed other classes tanking ability. IMO Druid's and Pali's are on almost the same level as Warriors when it comes to tanking effectiveness now. In fact, they might have an edge because of the other abilities (buffs) they bring to the table. The only thing they lack is the overall mitigation. I guess that's the reason Bearamar has been on the shelf since December. He just doesn't bring that much to the table anymore __________________ “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

01-26-2007, 12:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,422	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. In order to try out a different angle on this, I have respecced Beep to 0/41/13 (at the moment), keeping most of the protection "goodness" for aggro generation, but dual-wielding (Quel + some green dagger) for most grinding. Future points (at least 2 more) are slotted for Protection. I've ground out most of a level and tanked blood furnace and the mid-level instance (name escapes me) next to slave pens while using this spec. So far...I definitely take more damage...but my dps is up from 100 or so to around 185-225 or so...peaks around 300...with generally crap DPS gear (crit chance only around 13.5%) and around 1,000 AP unbuffed. Grinding out mobs is definitely faster...especially if partnered with a pally who can touch-up heal. Otherwise, I'm eating/bandaging a LOT more. Keeping aggro on a single mob if I start on him is not an issue. Getting aggro away from another player if I'm in battle stance and coming late to the party is much tougher, especially if my bloodrage is on cooldown. In defensive stance, things are about the same as before. No shield slam...but I have bloodthirst (albeit without rampage while in defensive stance) that produces about the same damage on the same 6 second cooldown as shield slam. I chose Fury over Arms build because I felt I could keep "more" points in Protection and still get the 41 point talent. I may try a Mortal Strike build if I get a nice two-hander. So...wrapping up...questing/leveling seems faster with a dual-wield spec, but more expensive in terms of food and bandages. Instance running (so far) isn't too bad, but I'm definitely working harder to manage aggro than before. Once I hit level 70 and the round of reinstancing on heroic mode...with the aim of moving to 10 and 25 person raids...I'll be headed back to protection. Its damage mitigation and aggro management is still the best, imo, for a tanking warrior. Offtanking still has plenty of viability with the other specs. __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov) Last edited by beep; 01-26-2007 at 01:25 PM.

01-27-2007, 09:50 AM	#19 (permalink)
Anah Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 390	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. I've been tanking on Smed a lot lately. Just some things to remember - Paladins hold aggro by getting hit and hurting the other guy when they get hit. They have talents that increase aggro generation of HOLY damage. In these new instances Ive come across a couple bosses with some Holy resistance. This seriously nerfs the ability to hold aggro on those bosses. The other thing to remember is that you can't hit as soon on a pally's mob, he has to build a hate margin up to stay on the pally. It goes back to simple rules we should all be following. 1. If you don't want the mob to come after you, hit the mob that is on a tank. 2. If you hit a mob that is not being hit actively by the tank, it will come after you. 3. If the tank has to chase your mob, the other mobs are not taking damage from the tank and will chase somebody who hits them. The Pally taunt has been working marginally, especially when the person who pulled the mob off is still hitting it. __________________ Anahlahna and Friends

01-27-2007, 02:53 PM	#20 (permalink)
Halten Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 466	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. I respecced to 34/23/0 (atm). Without endless rage its not TOO bad. But against level 69 mobs, my damage generally sucks. I say if you get a HARD hitting two hander (~350 top end or so), you could have a viable MS build without ER. __________________ Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core! BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON! TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

01-29-2007, 04:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,422	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. Update: 1. My spec is 2/41/13 (level 65). 13+ protection points buys me most of the threat bonuses for aggro management. Full protection gives you faster cooldowns, more damage mitigation and a few purely tanking goodies...at the price of DPS. 2. I've successfully tanked in this spec for instances...Ramparts, Blood Furnace, Slave Pens, Underbog and Mana Tombs. Aggro management is touchier, but acceptable. 3. I carry two different sets of gear...DPS for battle stance and tanking gear for defensive stance. 4. Party time = tanking in defensive stance MOST of the time, where the warrior's job is holding aggro and NOT faster killing. Solo & questing is almost exclusively battle stance/dual-wield where speedy kills are more important. 5. My dual-wield DPS is 200-300 DPS depending on the mob, and 100 or so if in defensive stance with sword-n-board. (Hey! Stop that snickering all you DPS classes!!!) 6. Holding aggro in defensive stance is not a huge issue, but does require a bit of care. With an "aware" party (one who can tackle designated targets in sequence), I can hold aggro on 2 or even 3 mobs while the others are zerged down by the group. 7. Questing/grinding while dual-wielding requires much more frequent bandaging/eating...every 2-3 mobs or so...vs. full-protection spec grinding (every 3-5 mobs or so)...but it's much faster. Bottom line...warrioring in the expansion still works! You CAN still tank! In fact, I'm finding that demand for tanking in parties is strong...based partly on the shortage of tanking-types, but also because tanks and healers are still needed party roles for efficient instancing. I'm taking nothing from feral druids or pallys, but they are not as "specialized" as a warrior. My thinking is to keep leveling in this spec to level 70, at which point I will respec back to protection for the ultimate in tankage goodness once we start heroic mode 5-man dungeons, pointing toward 10-25 man raids. __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

01-30-2007, 12:17 PM	#22 (permalink)
Delg Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Age: 28 Posts: 163	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. well, I did it and i am finding a bit of a rage accumulation issue but i have definetly seen a massive improvement in my dps.. and a decrease in my effeciveness as a tank.. with a solid group this isnt a problem as they focus fire on the right mobs but i have found with pugs when ppl tend to do free for all it is almost impossible to keep multiple mobs entertained. the 26s shield wall r0XX0rs though.. that can last the last 20% of a boss usually. also i have found that the new gear focusing on stam and def (champion attribute) lends itself to fairly good damage mitigation. not sure how long i will keep it as in higher instances (eg crypts) without a solid group it would be almost impossible. Though i must say fighting a fel reaver second wind is a must. __________________ FOR THE DICKENS!!!

02-01-2007, 12:04 PM	#24 (permalink)
Delg Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Age: 28 Posts: 163	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. the one i posted at the start of the thread. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...33022000000000 __________________ FOR THE DICKENS!!!

02-01-2007, 02:52 PM	#25 (permalink)
TG_Bear Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Age: 42 Posts: 504	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. Delg, That should be a fairly solid hybrid spec. There's only a couple of changes that I'd make. I'd pull the 5 points out of Anticipation. In my opinion, an additional 20 defense is nominal when compared to the joy of Tactical Mastery and Improved Bloodrage. You'd be able to charge in and generate a bunch of rage, then pop IB and you've got rage to burn! I'd also move the 3 points from Improved Heroic Strike and move them into Improved Charge and complete Second Wind. This way when you're grinding you get some additional rage and you're able to use that Mortal Strike that much quicker. __________________ “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

02-02-2007, 03:30 AM	#26 (permalink)
Delg Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Age: 28 Posts: 163	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. yes i am realizing that now especially with the new gear that is out.. even taking into account the level reducing the effectiveness of +def i am still at about 438 def in my hybrid tank gear (not full def but not full dps).. but i just finally managed to buy myself the epic riding mount and am completly broke.. i will not be respeccing until 70 and that will be to a 11/0/50 build. __________________ FOR THE DICKENS!!!

02-03-2007, 03:21 PM	#27 (permalink)
Delg Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Age: 28 Posts: 163	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. With the 70th level soon approaching i figured i would also share my final proposed tank build. let me know your thoughts and ideas. post your idea for build.. lets figures some stuff out. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...33022123031351 having seen the beauty that is anger management i figured dropping a point from my origianl 51prot build (at 60) to get it was worth it. now i have actually toyed with trying to get imp revenge and imp Heroic strke.. maybe taking some points out of imp def stance (for imp rev) and deflection for the imp hs. please post some ideas and or builds.. when 70 comes i want to have it ironed out. __________________ FOR THE DICKENS!!!

10-15-2007, 03:07 AM	#28 (permalink)
Delg Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Age: 28 Posts: 163	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. casts Resurrection ok so i have been contemplating a new build. as i have seen how important Heroic strike is to keep up for aggro purposes.. so i figured Imp HS is a good idea.. while i was at it i noticed some talents i chose.. while nice in the lower level mobs are quite useless in the higher instances where all mobs are immune (silence from imp SB, 15% fear/charm resist which i have never once resisted a fear or charm). so with that in mind i ask fellow warriors to take a look at my new build idea and give me some feedback. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...33022113031351 __________________ FOR THE DICKENS!!!

10-15-2007, 09:30 AM	#29 (permalink)
Tonk Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Luck, WI USA Age: 22 Posts: 3,026	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. zomg bump old post plz.. a new thread woulda worked =P __________________ -Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in an attractive and well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a beer in the other, body totally worn out screaming "YEEEHAW, WHAT A RIDE!!!" - my grandpa -My New Rig: cpu: AMD 6400+ 3.2ghz dual core mobo: Asus Crosshair ram: 8gb (4x2gb) geil exotera 4-4-4-12 video card MSI 8800GTS 512mb (g92) Vista:x64 Laptop: Dell i9300 2.16ghz-2gb ram-6800-17" 1920x1200 -Toasty/Tonk/Chair http://tgtonk.notlong.com

10-15-2007, 11:53 AM	#30 (permalink)
Aeryck Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 113	Re: Warriors Lend me your Ears, and Voices. Noob alt tank here (Proton), so give it the minimal amount of respect. No cruelty or 1-handed weapon specialization seems like it would seriously drop your threat generation. I wouldn't give up either to save a couple rage points. __________________

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