Aestryd

Hey guys, I had read decent amount about MH trash waves before our run there last week, and there is a lot of conflicting advice, but what I was able to take away is that it depends on your situation, and what works for you. So, I'd like to open a rapport between us pally tanks, healers, and any others with input.

With that in mind, the first run through the trash, I basically threw on my BV (block value) - about 530 BV before talent- set with some threat pieces and waded in. Well, as the healers probably realised I wasn't able to pull threat off Max very well if at all and there are a few reasons for this. First: gear - Max is sporting mostly t4 and ZA equipment, and as such has a good balance between most of the tanking stats that we need as pally tanks, including spell damage. Compared to myself, I guesstimated (this isn't showing up a spelling mistake...weird) about a 230 SD difference, including the flask of blinding light that max was using (which is a good choice, IMO), which makes a huge difference for threat during tanking. However, as a result I also noted that max was taking a respectable amount more damage per swing due to not prioritizing BV; about 200-300 per swing from a ghoul, I think whereas I was taking about 280-350 per swing from ghouls. I'm not sure if this was a drain on healer mana, or it was hard to keep him up (keeping in mind he had the lion's share of the adds, which is atypical), but it could be made easier with application of more BV.

The second run through, I tossed on my trash tanking outfit, but threw in 3 large BV pieces (the head and shoulders from ZA, and the chain hinge from SV), coming up around mid 300s for BV before talents. This run through, I noticed a distinct increase in my threat though I was still about a 110 SD lower than Max, so he was still getting the lion's share of the mobs (but down from about 95% to about 70%).

The third run through, I just tossed on my threat set, but tossed on a tanking ring with BV on, coming in around 250 or so BV. I was taking noticeably more damage per swing, but was getting roughly just under half of the mobs (due to max still having the elixir the SD difference was about 40). If you can remember the different pulls healers, please post here and let us know if there were significant differences in healing patterns. In any case, this third time I noticed once or twice my health dipping below 30%, though I wasn't really in any danger. The difference here is that compared to the previous two times there seemed to be more trouble keeping me up, though this could be explained away in any number of ways.

For different waves, different sets are recommended of course, like for abom heavy ones prioritize stam to last out the stuns or for ghouls/spiders prioritize spell damage to allow faster burning down with less complications. This isn't really the point of this post as we should probably all know this kind of information by now. The point of the post is to help the tanking core get organized with feedback from the healers and even DPS (though omen was screwy, if you noticed any problems with us holding aggro, let us know). I feel that as far as pally tanks goes I noticed a huge difference when Max and I weren't roughly equal for threat, so I think we should organize that first, as later trash waves will be much less forgiving than the set before Rage.

Personally, I think that prioritizing high block value followed by threat and then stam on non-abom heavy waves should be a priority for the pally tanks, as well as keeping fairly consistent threat between us should also be something to focus on. If this requires some of us (me) to get threat gear with better tanking stats, let's do that. If it requires us to "downgrade" (see: sidegrade) tanking equipment then let's do that. But above all, let's get this all sorted out: more communication would be great, at all times.

That being said, I'd really like every resurgent member to respond to this post, at least to say that they've read it if not for actual feedback.

Looking forward to saving hawt giant Jaina with the rest of you,

__________________


Aestryd 80 Prot Pally / Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid / Yuusei 71 Enhancement Shaman
Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior / Tamrissa 70 Affliction Warlock / Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
Shyff 70 Arcane Mage / Indrus 54 Combat Rogue

beep

Read it. I think you raise some good thoughts.

From a caster DPS perspective, my focus is on following the RL directions and tank targets in sequence to DPS them down. For that to work well, tanks need to hold aggro and stay alive...walking the fine line between creating threat from damage given out and mitigating the incoming damage...generally not compatible tanking gear attributes.

__________________
Beep


Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

Elminnster

Read. I did not notice aggro problems from my end. However, I was running around as a shepherd on some waves, allowing for an additional aggro gap between me and the tanks.

The only thing that comes to mind was that on some waves, there was enough separation between 2 mob groups that not all mobs in the "AoE zone" were getting hit by the casters. Though I am not sure this is entirely relevant to this discussion.

Aestryd

It's not directly related, but it's still good to know. thanks elm

__________________


Aestryd 80 Prot Pally / Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid / Yuusei 71 Enhancement Shaman
Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior / Tamrissa 70 Affliction Warlock / Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
Shyff 70 Arcane Mage / Indrus 54 Combat Rogue

Wintrow

From a healing standpoint, I don't recall ever feeling strained with heals. In my mind, the main priority during these trash waves should be on holding aggro and keeping the mobs under control. That makes healing a ton easier. If we know the tanks are the one's taking all the damage, pre-casting and keeping up HoTs is fairly trivial.

__________________
70 Priest

Gaiaghost07

Not being in MH with you guys shouldn't exlude me from commenting, but I would think the objective would be to not downgrade to side peices, because you are in MH, this is not a soft spot. As you stated, trash after Rage will NOT be so forgiving, Talk to the officers, get you a few peices of gear if it will help the raid as a whole...

Just a thought.

--Gaiaghost

__________________
Doomkin...Tree...or Bear. If your not the above, your not cool! *Note* Alts don't count....

Aeryck

Read. I have confidence that you will figure out the right balance

__________________

Maxarilius

Read. I'm working atm and can't really take a look at anything in game right now. Last week, I was caught unprepaired on what gear to bring. i had my usual tanking attire and healing..This week I'll bring some high block value items and will mess around with my spell dam and try to stay close to you.

__________________
Maxarilius70Human Retribution Paladin
Subterfuge 70 Night Elf Combat Rogue
Jandahar 70 Dwarf Holy Priest
Meatnormous 70 Draenei Enhancement Shaman

orion808

read...

__________________

BigSlick

/read

__________________
_______________________________
Bigslick - 80 Human Priest (Discipline)
Cab - 74 Night Elf Druid (Moonkin)

Gollaen

Read. The only issue I have seen so far from my end is that the non-visual 15yrd range on Celltar's and my aoe tend to break CC because the groups are too close together.

__________________

Koliana: 70 Feral Druid
Tarma: 70 Enhancement Shaman

I had it all! I had it all and then I lost it. Lost... all gone... like... my mind. My mind is like... cheese. I like cheese.