Warrior Loot Priority Poll

**beep** · 10-31-2006, 01:22 PM

For determining class priority for loot, we are considering combining the DPS warrior and tanking warrior categories into one category, “warrior”.

We have no way of actually tracking spec, but I think we have actually tried to follow the idea that warriors who are dominant in one spec are viewed that way. I used to be more militant about the "need" for protection spec for PVE tanking, but as we have gotten better gear spread around the other warriors, it is less critical.

I still believe that a protection spec yields the most effective, efficient and useful tank. Even so, a dilemma is associated with that since most raid encounters rarely require more than 2 or 3 "tanks"...and often only 1 with a backup. So the prot spec "offtanks" spend a lot of time trying to DPS the mobs with their gimped damage output and high aggro generation. I'm not surprised at all that many wind up choosing a spec other than protection to be more effective at the things they do the most.

The thinking behind this change is that most players respec quite often, so the distinction between DPS and Tank artificially serves to “reward” and “penalize” warriors differently depending on what drops and what spec you may be carrying at the time. We also want to remove any loot-based disincentive or stigma attached to being a protection-spec tank.

We believe that tanking-oriented gear will appeal to those who primarily tank and vice-versa. Our warriors have been very good about fairly distributing loot to those who can use it. We will need serious tanks for raids in the future AND high damage output warriors as well. The expansion seems more likely to increase specialization, in my opinion.

In truth, all warriors have to take a turn in certain situations with 1 hander and shield, so the distinction between DPS and Tank is getting smaller, at least until the Burning Crusade is realeased.

With this in mind, what do you think of treating all warriors with the same loot priority?

ONLY MAIN CHARACTER WARRIORS SHOULD RESPOND TO THE POLL!!!!

**TG_Bear** · 10-31-2006, 04:09 PM

Beep, I'm glad you put this up because I think it's an issue the we've struggled with as a class. I really don't see this as being too much of a negative because as a group, we've been very diplomatic about passing on loot that others could benefit from. I also think your assessment is accurate that rarely do you really need more than 2 full Prot warriors. Vael is a bit of an exception as aggro control is an issue but we've still shown that we can down him. Besides, is there any other class that differentiates loot based on spec?

I could have bought a stable of epic mounts with the money I've spent spec'ing and respecing. I guess there's no easy solution when you love to tank and you also enjoy the dps role.

I'm personally biased but I think the Warrior class has some of the most solid and consistent players in the game. Even though we're a collection of knuckleheads we don't embarass ourselves and I'm proud of our consistency. Hats off to Beep for his exemplary leadership.

**beep** · 10-31-2006, 04:33 PM

Warriors...please feel free to add your own thoughts to this thread. If you think this is a bad idea, please explain your thinking. If you like it, tell us why.

We are making a sincere effort to incorporate the thinking of our membership in our consideration of changes to the loot distribution/DKP system. While your vote in the poll is super important, it is ALSO important to know WHY!!!

duck · 10-31-2006, 04:54 PM

I like having the spec distinction. I personally would never want to take away anything from a Prot Spec'd warrior, that would help them be a better tank.

With our method of bidding DKP on items, I don't always know who is bidding. I would like to keep something in place that gives priority to a specific spec for certain items, like we have now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beep

The thinking behind this change is that most players respec quite often,

I disagree with this assumption. I think most of us respec very rarely. I will generally respec after a significant upgrade, or if I am just curious. Since joining TG I have respec'd twice. Once after winning the [Halberd of Smiting] from ZG and most recently after winning the [Bonereaver's Edge] off of Rags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear

I could have bought a stable of epic mounts with the money I've spent spec'ing and respecing. I guess there's no easy solution when you love to tank and you also enjoy the dps role.

I too love to tank, and I also like the dps role. I have come to realize that I am more valuable as an off-tank/Dps simply because of my inability to attend raids consistantly. I do, however, get my tanking fix in the 20-man instances.

If I were to change anything, it would be to add an attendance factor to some of the better Tanking loot distribution. I would hate to see something drop, that is needed by one of our more regular attendies, given out to a newer member just because they reached their 3rd raid. I like that we have that 3 raid attendance rule, but I would extend it a little further for our more critical classes/specs.

**beep** · 10-31-2006, 05:51 PM

Hmm....OK....SOME warriors respec quite often...but not all.

Speaking for me, I have primary interest in gear that will help me tank, with secondary interest in gear that lets me do more DPS and improve farming, etc.

Few DPS warriors have any interest in tanking-oriented stuff, but certain one-handed high DPS weapons would be well-suited for tank aggro generation (e.g. certain high DPS, fast daggers...much to the alarm of our rogue brethren and sisteren!!).

The fact is there are only three protection spec warriors in the guild. I don't think we represent much of a gear competition threat to the DPS warriors. Personally, I have no interest in bidding against a warrior teammate who seriously needs an item, but I might be interested in something that was a "sideways" upgrade.

Halten · 10-31-2006, 07:09 PM

I put "need to know more" only because that was the only gray area that appealed to me. the other gray area said that I don't give a ****, and I do.

I think since most of us have more than 4/8 might, or at least decent blues etc, prot isn't THAT important. It is for a MT, at least a 31/5/15 cookiecutter build, or more. I'm specced 31/20/0 and in tank gear I'm sitting at:

5569 HP
7117 Armor
374 Defense
12.96% to block with shields
10.61% to dodge
10.96% to parry.

these stats aren't OUTSTANDING as far as tanking goes, but you guys can see that I can tank. Prot makes tanking easier on everyone, but as the gear gets better, the spec becomes slightly less important, IMO.

-Halten, signing off.

Halten · 11-01-2006, 10:22 AM

Also, I assume we're still going to keep MT gearing, correct?

**beep** · 11-01-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halten

Also, I assume we're still going to keep MT gearing, correct?

Do you mean "super" priority for the MT? If so, that is an open choice at this stage in our raiding. I don't see it as critical to our progress as it was when we were mastering MC. Common sense and courtesy should prevail, imo. Do we NEED priority MT gearing? Not now, IMO.

Beep is well-geared for our stage of progress and raiding often enough to have decent DKP for bidding. Common sense and courtesy should prevail, imo. For example, although there are some great 2H weapons in BWL, I don't plan to bid on those. I am interested in T2 armor and a few other pieces, but I'm also willing to rely on DKP and the consensus of the group as to who gets what...and when.

The main tanking bits from BWL (beyond T2 armor) are [Styleen's Impeding Scarab], [Elementium Reinforced Bulwark] and [Lifegiving Gem].

Hitchins · 11-01-2006, 11:29 AM

Just to clarify, this question is really, "Should loot priority be removed for warriors?", Right? Treat all warriors the same, just use DKP? I only ask because at first glance, it seemed that the question might mean giving warriors priority over other classes as well.

**beep** · 11-01-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitchins

Just to clarify, this question is really, "Should loot priority be removed for warriors?", Right? Treat all warriors the same, just use DKP? I only ask because at first glance, it seemed that the question might mean giving warriors priority over other classes as well.

We are looking at ALL classes...and ALL loot priorities. One of the starting points is to determine which classes are up for consideration. Consolidating all warriors into one class is a piece of a larger puzzle.

The question/poll is intended simply to eliminate differing priority for DPS (Arms/Fury) vs Tanks (Protection), leaving us to continue to wrestle with the idea of warriors vs all other classes and/or subgroups.

**beep** · 11-01-2006, 11:41 AM

OK....let's be clear...this poll is just to take the pulse of the warriors...

No one but main character warriors should vote in this poll

We have two non-warrior votes that should NOT be here. Pay attention, please!

Ricca · 11-01-2006, 02:32 PM

Well actually if you pick a spec you should stay with it..If we do this then it will say its ok for you to respec sure it doesnt matter get this gear this time cause you might can use it next year when you respec..I think it should be rolled on the spec you are at the time..cause if ur arms/fury then it could be taking something that a tank can really use at the time..

Kelilyse · 11-01-2006, 10:13 PM

ok, I will admit, I voted for the "it doesn't matter" option. I will also admit that I chose that option without fully reading everyone else's opinions. (I tend to be a bit impulsive.) Now that I am more informed, here's what I think:
If it makes it easier to keep track of DKP, by all means, lump the warriors together. If it doesn't, don't worry about it. We should all know by now what items are good for which spec, or at least how to tell the difference. With the way it is now, we have in the past, had discussions in chat about which items would be best suited for which person and how they are playing. I really don't see this practice changing much. If for some reason we need more time for discussion, we can always ask the Master Looter to post that particular item for bidding last. I truely don't see this being much of a change either way. As long as we don't jump the gun on bidding until there's been a bit of discussion, I don't see any problem with the change. Bottom line is, If you know that you're going DPS, and there's a Tank in the raid that you know could really use a shiny new shield, don't bid on it, or at the very least, send that person a whisper. Let's not be greedy.
(ok, so I'm not really certain if any of that made sense. Feel free to nod and smile and disregard anything that didn't)
~ Keli

**beep** · 11-01-2006, 11:46 PM

We now have three people who don't read who have answered this poll WHICH IS ONLY FOR WARRIORS.

Ricca · 11-02-2006, 12:01 AM

I have a warrior so i count.....and I didnt take the poll i just posted in the forum... there is a diffrence

View Poll Results: What do think about combining all warriors into a single class for loot priority?
Great idea!	3	33.33%
Bad idea!	1	11.11%
Doesn't matter to me either way!	1	11.11%
I need to know more...	4	44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

10-31-2006, 01:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,422	Warrior Loot Priority Poll For determining class priority for loot, we are considering combining the DPS warrior and tanking warrior categories into one category, “warrior”. We have no way of actually tracking spec, but I think we have actually tried to follow the idea that warriors who are dominant in one spec are viewed that way. I used to be more militant about the "need" for protection spec for PVE tanking, but as we have gotten better gear spread around the other warriors, it is less critical. I still believe that a protection spec yields the most effective, efficient and useful tank. Even so, a dilemma is associated with that since most raid encounters rarely require more than 2 or 3 "tanks"...and often only 1 with a backup. So the prot spec "offtanks" spend a lot of time trying to DPS the mobs with their gimped damage output and high aggro generation. I'm not surprised at all that many wind up choosing a spec other than protection to be more effective at the things they do the most. The thinking behind this change is that most players respec quite often, so the distinction between DPS and Tank artificially serves to “reward” and “penalize” warriors differently depending on what drops and what spec you may be carrying at the time. We also want to remove any loot-based disincentive or stigma attached to being a protection-spec tank. We believe that tanking-oriented gear will appeal to those who primarily tank and vice-versa. Our warriors have been very good about fairly distributing loot to those who can use it. We will need serious tanks for raids in the future AND high damage output warriors as well. The expansion seems more likely to increase specialization, in my opinion. In truth, all warriors have to take a turn in certain situations with 1 hander and shield, so the distinction between DPS and Tank is getting smaller, at least until the Burning Crusade is realeased. With this in mind, what do you think of treating all warriors with the same loot priority? ONLY MAIN CHARACTER WARRIORS SHOULD RESPOND TO THE POLL!!!! __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

10-31-2006, 04:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
TG_Bear Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Age: 42 Posts: 504	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll Beep, I'm glad you put this up because I think it's an issue the we've struggled with as a class. I really don't see this as being too much of a negative because as a group, we've been very diplomatic about passing on loot that others could benefit from. I also think your assessment is accurate that rarely do you really need more than 2 full Prot warriors. Vael is a bit of an exception as aggro control is an issue but we've still shown that we can down him. Besides, is there any other class that differentiates loot based on spec? I could have bought a stable of epic mounts with the money I've spent spec'ing and respecing. I guess there's no easy solution when you love to tank and you also enjoy the dps role. I'm personally biased but I think the Warrior class has some of the most solid and consistent players in the game. Even though we're a collection of knuckleheads we don't embarass ourselves and I'm proud of our consistency. Hats off to Beep for his exemplary leadership. __________________ “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

10-31-2006, 04:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,422	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll Warriors...please feel free to add your own thoughts to this thread. If you think this is a bad idea, please explain your thinking. If you like it, tell us why. We are making a sincere effort to incorporate the thinking of our membership in our consideration of changes to the loot distribution/DKP system. While your vote in the poll is super important, it is ALSO important to know WHY!!! __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

10-31-2006, 05:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,422	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll Hmm....OK....SOME warriors respec quite often...but not all. Speaking for me, I have primary interest in gear that will help me tank, with secondary interest in gear that lets me do more DPS and improve farming, etc. Few DPS warriors have any interest in tanking-oriented stuff, but certain one-handed high DPS weapons would be well-suited for tank aggro generation (e.g. certain high DPS, fast daggers...much to the alarm of our rogue brethren and sisteren!!). The fact is there are only three protection spec warriors in the guild. I don't think we represent much of a gear competition threat to the DPS warriors. Personally, I have no interest in bidding against a warrior teammate who seriously needs an item, but I might be interested in something that was a "sideways" upgrade. __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

10-31-2006, 07:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
Halten Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 466	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll I put "need to know more" only because that was the only gray area that appealed to me. the other gray area said that I don't give a ****, and I do. I think since most of us have more than 4/8 might, or at least decent blues etc, prot isn't THAT important. It is for a MT, at least a 31/5/15 cookiecutter build, or more. I'm specced 31/20/0 and in tank gear I'm sitting at: 5569 HP 7117 Armor 374 Defense 12.96% to block with shields 10.61% to dodge 10.96% to parry. these stats aren't OUTSTANDING as far as tanking goes, but you guys can see that I can tank. Prot makes tanking easier on everyone, but as the gear gets better, the spec becomes slightly less important, IMO. -Halten, signing off.

11-01-2006, 10:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
Halten Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 466	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll Also, I assume we're still going to keep MT gearing, correct?

11-01-2006, 11:29 AM	#9 (permalink)
Hitchins Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Age: 31 Posts: 155	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll Just to clarify, this question is really, "Should loot priority be removed for warriors?", Right? Treat all warriors the same, just use DKP? I only ask because at first glance, it seemed that the question might mean giving warriors priority over other classes as well.

11-01-2006, 11:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,422	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll OK....let's be clear...this poll is just to take the pulse of the warriors... No one but main character warriors should vote in this poll We have two non-warrior votes that should NOT be here. Pay attention, please! __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov) Last edited by beep; 11-01-2006 at 12:28 PM.

11-01-2006, 02:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ricca Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Georgia Posts: 956	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll Well actually if you pick a spec you should stay with it..If we do this then it will say its ok for you to respec sure it doesnt matter get this gear this time cause you might can use it next year when you respec..I think it should be rolled on the spec you are at the time..cause if ur arms/fury then it could be taking something that a tank can really use at the time.. __________________ Candrice 63 Warrior Ricca 70 Rogue Machelle 70 Mage Enya 74 Druid

11-01-2006, 10:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kelilyse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll ok, I will admit, I voted for the "it doesn't matter" option. I will also admit that I chose that option without fully reading everyone else's opinions. (I tend to be a bit impulsive.) Now that I am more informed, here's what I think: If it makes it easier to keep track of DKP, by all means, lump the warriors together. If it doesn't, don't worry about it. We should all know by now what items are good for which spec, or at least how to tell the difference. With the way it is now, we have in the past, had discussions in chat about which items would be best suited for which person and how they are playing. I really don't see this practice changing much. If for some reason we need more time for discussion, we can always ask the Master Looter to post that particular item for bidding last. I truely don't see this being much of a change either way. As long as we don't jump the gun on bidding until there's been a bit of discussion, I don't see any problem with the change. Bottom line is, If you know that you're going DPS, and there's a Tank in the raid that you know could really use a shiny new shield, don't bid on it, or at the very least, send that person a whisper. Let's not be greedy. (ok, so I'm not really certain if any of that made sense. Feel free to nod and smile and disregard anything that didn't) ~ Keli

11-01-2006, 11:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,422	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll We now have three people who don't read who have answered this poll WHICH IS ONLY FOR WARRIORS. __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

11-02-2006, 12:01 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ricca Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Georgia Posts: 956	Re: Warrior Loot Priority Poll I have a warrior so i count.....and I didnt take the poll i just posted in the forum... there is a diffrence __________________ Candrice 63 Warrior Ricca 70 Rogue Machelle 70 Mage Enya 74 Druid

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