Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bad game starts

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bad game starts

    Had a game where we started 1 man short, then lost another one a minute later in the game. We went about 5mins playing 2 man down and by the time we had the server filled we couldn't progress. Having 6 vs 8, for marines is a big challenge as you need to build as oppose to alien's self building structures. So I suggested we F4 and start a real game instead of wasting our time in what will not be a fun game as we didn't have a fair shot. I got shot down by two admins that we had to wait till the clock hit 10mins before we could use concede. I don't know if 10mins is a rule and can be adjusted. Though I think what is ridiculous is to blindly follow "rules" w/o any exception. Rules are in place for a reason, though have no exception of them can lead to very unpleasant gaming experiences. As soon as 10 minutes hit yep we all conceded, even the admin who shot my suggestion down.

    -Solarity
    Lights Out!

  • #2
    Re: Bad game starts

    I think it's a tough call to make. The admins probably decided to play it safe rather than restart the round etc.
    |TG-Irr|PricelineNegotiator

    Seaman

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bad game starts

      Conceding games early on is a very slippery slope, where if one team loses the first couple of encounters players will assume that means the game is lost even if it means that they are just behind. Giving it 10 minutes to see if the team can turn it around also lets the winning team get to enjoy their success instead of the message 'you are only winning because we are short a player'.
      |TG-6th|Snooggums

      Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bad game starts

        Originally posted by snooggums View Post
        Conceding games early on is a very slippery slope, where if one team loses the first couple of encounters players will assume that means the game is lost even if it means that they are just behind. Giving it 10 minutes to see if the team can turn it around also lets the winning team get to enjoy their success instead of the message 'you are only winning because we are short a player'.
        This was also the though behind the f4 rule. We want to avoid the situation where concede happens at the first hint of defeat. Games like this can be frustrating and i certainly understand that. But, i don't think they happen often. How often do we see games like this? This is the first time i have seen the 10 minute minimum for the vote concede function.
        "The electric Yellow's got me by the brain banana!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bad game starts

          I have seen many come backs from 2 tech points for the team that is being owned. Though when you are locked in to 1 tech point and can't push out at all and given the bad start I think that was the reason I suggest us throwing in the towel. I ended up just knifing as if I tried to play seriously I would have had no fun and would have called it a night.

          There have been many times I have not joined the concede club i.e. we just had our 2nd base owned and they were pushing into our last one. In that situation just let the game play it's course and let them go away with the feeling of a solid win. Though on the other hand if you are stuck in your main and they are doing 1 onos at a time though they have the halls lamed up so you can't do anything but just kill people that attack base, I see no point of trying to kid yourself. W/o JP or heavies and no rez it is to hard to overcome that. With two bases it is a completely different story.

          Granted I will admit there were times I wanted to concede and we some how came back. Those tend to be the best games, but then again they all had 2 tech points.

          The other thing I would like to bring up is on Tram it seems there is a problem with bases spawning next to each other. I am pretty sure this is a bug as it doesn't happen on any other map. In this case I would also look to see a restart of the map as I have seen to many of them turn into 1 tech point vs team trying to tech up before finish off that team.

          I know Viel can be very unforgiving as it has only 4tech points, though I think a 2nd tech point outweighs nano any time. Though I do think the limit of tech points does make the map a very interesting game to play. A team that is limited to 1 tech point is more of their own folly than a bug in the game for this map. (random side topic)
          Lights Out!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bad game starts

            How often does this happen?

            How many thread participants can state that it happens often enough to warrant change?
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bad game starts

              See that is the thing exceptions are called exceptions for a reason. I am just asking for some flexability. I see the bases next to each other happen all the time. I let the 2man down go on for 5 minutes w/o saying anything and I didn't think about the effects of this passiveness. Though I did get rediculed for pointing out that it was 9vs7, having that past game fresh in my mind. Not everyone checks scoreboards or pays attention to balance. I usually don't find we have an upgrade till I go to evolve.

              I think asking for what people think in these cases can help. I have switched map before in similar situations even going to the oposing team to ask if anyone would protest a map change. In the couple instances of asking, many of the other team said go ahead w/o any protest from either side. If one person protested I would obstain. It is one thing todo it as a hot headed decision, it is another if everyone agrees. They admin on our team seem understand, though he did really stick to his principles, which I say is impressive giving the outcome of the game.

              Many people speed by cops w/o incident. They only pull you over in the case you are going way to fast or are driving odd. I am just asking for that. Exceptions to the rule.
              Lights Out!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bad game starts

                I want more voices in this thread saying this is a problem that happens often enough to warrant change.

                Of course, opposite opinions are welcome, too.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bad game starts

                  I've experienced a few situations where a restart felt warranted. For example, two nights ago I played a game as marines where our commander left immediately as the game started without dropping anything. By the time anyone noticed the team was already halfway towards topographical and skylights, where both parties were killed by skulks. I believe another player left after that, resulting in a 6v8 with our side having no commander, plan, and most of the team dead. For whatever reason our base wasn't rushed and we were able to respawn and get a commander in the chair, but at that point we were in a pretty bad position and it seemed most of team just wanted to restart, as we were almost sure to lose. It doesn't happen terribly often, but when situations like these occur it would be nice to have a way to just restart the round instead of playing a game one team is almost sure to lose.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bad game starts

                    Could we have a restart vote that can be done? Put everyone in the ready room from a server wide vote? I don't like playing against a side that has 5 minute head start. Also it makes winning one of those rounds less fullfilling, when someone says their commander left or no one bothered to look at the score board to see the teams were unfair. I assumed we would get someone joining quickly, though we didn't. Again this is a very rare issue, that would be nice to have some leway. I suggest F4, the admin said just concede, though he didn't know about the 10min restriction.

                    Nornally teams don't have issues like this. Though twice last night we saw this. Once when no one joined the server, the other time when a SM joined before someone was kicked.
                    Lights Out!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bad game starts

                      If ten people (including those who already have) ask for it in this thread, I'll modify WinOrLose to allow earlier voting.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bad game starts

                        I'm not sure about a direct modification of WinOrLose, as I'm unsure that it's the right solution, but it is a solution.

                        As for the larger issue, the game being what it is, the first 3-5 minutes are absolutely crucial for both teams, and the team that starts outnumbered by more than one, and/or have teams that are so skill stacked that one team loses almost every one of their initial engagements is basically resigned to lose the game slowly. There's also the issue of really small games (like 3v4, etc.) where there's an inherent imbalance due to the few number of starting players.

                        In these cases I find it useful to at least see about issuing an sv_reset to restart the round. While I worked on the NS2 server for my old TF2 community, whenever I seeded the server, I'd almost always inform the first few joiners that we were seeding, and that the round would restart once about 10-12 people were on the server. Once that number was reached, I'd ask the server if they would be okay with a reset (more often than not, one side got steamrolled pretty quickly because of the low number of players) and if a majority said okay, we'd restart with those larger teams and generally have a good round. There were also certain times where players were reluctant, and so we'd simply play the round out.

                        Besides an sv_reset once teams were evened out, you could also simply force a re-roll of the teams via sv_rrall and sv_balance/random. The latter is a bit more heavy handed though, and some people simply want to play a certain side, or with certain friends. Personally, win or lose, I tend to stay with whatever team I've been assigned and play it out, but that's just me. I do understand it is frustrating to be on one team and seeing every single server reg on the other team, though.

                        sv_balance itself doesn't work all too well in my opinion. It's better than flat out random, but lately it feels like it's been making teams that stomp the other very rapidly.
                        With regard to balance, Wyz, I know you said that the plugin takes into account whoever is already on the team. However, does it dynamically recalculate the teams if the plugin assigns someone to one team, and they quickly F4 and switch to the other? This does happen fairly often.

                        Honestly, the most even teams I've seen in recent games has been those where even after an sv_balance, no one hops into the chair/hive and the regs look at the teams and switch with each other until it looks more even based upon our knowledge of each other's strengths and play styles. This requires communication, though, and generally doesn't happen when there are a bunch of strangers on the server.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bad game starts

                          Modifying winorlose might be a bad thing. I could see it used to early and to often. I think we need to just have latitude for having SMs deciding under much thought if it is a good time to restart the match/ RR everyone.

                          Seeding is less painful by hanging in the ready room till you have enough. I tell people to be paitent and wait as it is much preferable to a one sided game. Donat must have had the biggest grin on his face as he dropped cysts and whips faster than I could kill them lol. Fear the whip rush!
                          Lights Out!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bad game starts

                            How are you defining "too often" when, each time, 85% of the team wanted it?

                            I'll entertain change, WinOrLose or not, once 10+ people ask for it in this thread.
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bad game starts

                              On an upside, I could try my winorloose from start strat. Lets see how marines like walls of clogs. I was thinking if using it prepatch as a joke. This was never a problem. Though then again you need 1 hive to use it. I just don't want people to give up too early. I worry we will see it used more than a reset as dark suggested.

                              Again the admin on our team sounded all for concede, until I told him of the 10min requirement. If the whole team agreed for F4, then how would it really be all that different? Just because it is a rule, doesn't mean it should be bent from time to time.
                              Lights Out!

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X