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  • Random Plugin Rewrite

    Hey, I have a suggestion regarding the random balance plugin:

    I have noticed that when an admin or temp balances teams, it only balances those not currently on a team.
    A solution would be to force everyone back to the ready room and disable the ability to join teams during the initial 30 seconds while it balances.

    This would solve any form of determined stacking and would disable players from watching the board and spamming a j1 or j2 key to get on to the team their friends are on.
    Currently, say I want on a team with Orphan and he is on Aliens from the random, then I would spam my j2 key and it would put me on Aliens as soon as it puts a player on Marines, skipping over the random process.

    This could be solved by disabling the ability to join for the initial 30 seconds while the plugin balances players, making it a true random.
    Obviously, like the current system, there will be times when the balance fails heavily, but that's a risk we take with balance.
    Others will say, "I'm a donator, I shouldn't be forced to follow the randomization process when it's my right to join a team before everyone else!" but this contradicts what random is for in the first place and stops any form of *chosen* stacking to take place.

    Another suggestion would be to disable team swapping for the first minute of the game, and force players who join the server to be auto assigned to a team while auto balance is in effect.

    Any ideas or suggestions?

  • #2
    Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

    The balance mod compensates for players who have joined a team mid-assignment. Well, it does the best it can, given whomever's left to assign. With each assignment, it chooses the next player to best balance whatever teams have already formed (automatically or otherwise). So, theoretically, it isn't threatened by "jammers".

    Perhaps it should only allow such "jamming" when fewer than X players have been assigned, so that lots are left with which to compensate (and so folks can also attempt the team of their choice, sometimes, competing only with other "jammers" during those first few assignments).
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

      Actually typically if the random teams are assigned backwards ( ? players first, then the "worst" players before the "best"), people will be less likely to stack because there is a higher likelihood they will be pulled onto a team before they see which team has the good player that makes them want to stack.
      remi.D

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      • #4
        Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

        Is it possible to stop people from joining another team is balance is run for 1-2 minutes?
        DO AS I COMMAND - Megatron possibly the hardest working commander ever known.

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        • #5
          Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

          Originally posted by blu.knight View Post
          Actually typically if the random teams are assigned backwards ( ? players first, then the "worst" players before the "best"), people will be less likely to stack because there is a higher likelihood they will be pulled onto a team before they see which team has the good player that makes them want to stack.
          That doesn't sound like a bad idea. Usually when there are a lot of "?" balance doesn't work very well, so if it randomly assigned ? to teams not based on win/loss history, and then did the regulars not only would it balance the ? players out more but it would also mean less stacking of ? players, and the more skilled players wouldn't not have the opportunity to stack. Right now it does them first it seems so they can very easily go to the ready room and sneak on a team by spamming join team, and get a spot where they want. If it did them last they would not be able to do this as easily because if they went to the ready room and tried to join it wouldn't let them because then teams would be uneven.

          That and it needs to disable the ability to switch teams for 1-2 minutes after balance started.

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          • #6
            Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

            Yes, I can prevent team joining. And I can switch the order in which folks are assigned.

            Reading all of this and will work on improvements. Thank you. More welcome, if it suits you.
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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            • #7
              Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

              Should dump the W-L ratio.

              Track the score of each player from each match. Assign a point value of 50 points for a win and -50 points for a loss. Add up the two for each match and you get the score for each player. Track the value associated with each player. Start balancing the players with lowest scores first and then assign in ascending order of score to each team. Prevent independent team joining once a balance command has been made for 5 minutes; this should weed out those people that go AFK during a balance.

              Just my two cents.

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              • #8
                Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                Originally posted by miragezors View Post
                Should dump the W-L ratio.

                Track the score of each player from each match. Assign a point value of 50 points for a win and -50 points for a loss. Add up the two for each match and you get the score for each player. Track the value associated with each player. Start balancing the players with lowest scores first and then assign in ascending order of score to each team. Prevent independent team joining once a balance command has been made for 5 minutes; this should weed out those people that go AFK during a balance.

                Just my two cents.
                This might have issues with people who like to comm 24/7.

                On a different thought, could the balance mod have a 10 sec count down to allow people to join, after that lock the gates and compensate for people who have joined, then start assigning people? While the current mod isn't perfect it sure beats having everyone go random, where it has a random chance of stacking one team.
                Lights Out!

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                • #9
                  Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                  I've deployed some changes to the balance mod tonight. Thanks to everyone who helped author and test.

                  ) uses score-per-minute instead of W/L
                  ) players can't drop to RR w/in 15 seconds of a balance
                  ) players can't see the scoreboard during a balance

                  The servers now persist score-per-minute for every player (for the last 30 games -- that number may change). When balancing a player for which we don't yet have at least 10 games of score-per-minute data, we now call out to ns2stats to attempt to get stopgap score-per-minute data for use during the balance.

                  Players can still "jam" their way into the team of their choice, if they pull it off directly from the readyroom. Nothing about this has changed, except your inability to see from the readyroom who is on what teams.

                  Once you're balanced to a team, you again can view the scoreboard.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                    Known issue: if the other team ends up with 2+ more players than your team during a balance (this is very rare), the 15-second wall prevents you from switching teams to fix that.

                    This is on my list of scenarios to accommodate.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                      So that explains what happen last night, I was a bit confused and thought I was being dc'ed. Is there a warning for this so it doesn't confuse people?
                      Lights Out!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                        There's no warning. Maybe we'll add one.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                          This has been on my mind for a bit, but I am wondering if there might be some reconsideration on the amount of time that everyone is locked out of team selection in favor of the supporting members.

                          Currently, I believe that as long as any supporting members are left in the RR, everyone else is locked out for 60 seconds.
                          However, recently it seems like most of us request/resort to using sv_balance within probably 30 seconds of everyone loading in.

                          This in effect means that, while people retain the ability to "spam" a join team command during the balance command execution, aren't they still being blocked from joining that team due to supporting members being in the RR?

                          My question is, would the duration of the lockout be reduced, in light of the fact that balance is being used more often and more quickly than before.
                          Secondly, is the lockout automatically disabled during the execution of the balance command? If not, would this be a viable alternative?

                          The idea here is that currently, in addition to being balanced into specific teams, you are also unable to switch teams for 15 seconds.
                          For those players that wish to play together with friends, the current system, I believe, allows them no opportunity to choose to do so.

                          I could be wrong though, as I've never actually tried spamming a join team key while balance was running.
                          If I am, then please disregard this post.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                            The team-join restriction is lifted as soon as the balance advisory appears on the screen and remains lifted for the duration of the balance operation.

                            Players can, when they beat the competition, get whatever team they want, even if it threatens balance.

                            I empathize with the friends trying to play on the same team. In lieu of something better, they can both spam their team join key and hope it works out for them.
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Random Plugin Rewrite

                              The team-join restriction is lifted as soon as the balance advisory appears on the screen and remains lifted for the duration of the balance operation.

                              Players can, when they beat the competition, get whatever team they want, even if it threatens balance.

                              I empathize with the friends trying to play on the same team. In lieu of something better, they can both spam their team join key and hope it works out for them.
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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