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  • The new NS2?

    So it is a whole new game and after everyone hates this, then they will release the previous version and call it NS2 Classic. Then everyone will rejoice and start playing again.




    ...joking aside what do you guys think? IMHO it really like to much at once, I don't mind minor changes in every patch, this is a bit over whelming. I am not the biggest fan, though I am willing to give it a couple of hours more. It seems like right now marines are really powerful. Maybe it could be from the aliens having no idea how to play now. The biggest change is the movement. Marines are a lot more agile. What are your guys thoughts?
    Lights Out!

  • #2
    Re: The new NS2?

    Long post ahead! But I hope it's helpful.

    I can definitely see how 250's massive changes would be overwhelming- I really do feel for some of the players on non TG servers (and those that weren't here during TG's balance test stint) that had no idea it was coming, and suddenly found that they had to relearn movement.

    That said, I think a lot of the marine-biased issues are coming from the fact that the aliens have to relearn not only movement, but the team's overall synergy.

    Alien synergy changes on a basic level.

    On the player side of things: The Lerk has been re-designed essentially to become more of a mix between support and an offensive class (they were supposed to be that way on paper before, but we all know how good lerks like Fury, DarkScythe, Don'tletmecom, Solarity, Easywhat and others could kill groups of marines solo in the right conditions in build 249). Lerks are still offensive and capable of dealing with 1 or maybe 2 non-shotgun marines by themself, but offensively, they are best off chipping away at health and armor with spikes from a distance, and then (carefully!) swooping in for bites. Charging in like you did before -will- get you killed versus good shots.

    The biggest change for Lerks is in their support skills- you can get Umbra with a relatively low amount of biomass (on one hive) from a crag, and this changes the alien teamplay dynamic immensely. Umbra plus the newly buffed gorges and a few skulks makes for terrifying early game "pack" gameplay that you just aren't seeing on pubs yet, since most coms and players don't even know about the umbra swap. (As an aside, combine that with a regen upgrade that works in combat and comm drifter abilities, and it is borderline overpowered).

    Skulks have the same role as before, but the rough idea is that they scale now, and "feel" much better in terms of control, and the ability to match up against marines with good aim. Movement tips go beyond the scope of this post (go here: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/disc...unity-p#latest for a good starter guide for skulks and fades), but when you incorporate even a basic form of the new movement and celerity, you end up with a lifeform that in skilled hands actually has a -chance- in a fight with mid-late tech marines, and has fantastic map mobility instead of being the cannon fodder of mid-late game in build 249. There are a few tricks to using the new walljump speed in combat to great effect, but know that charging head on into marines is a fantastic way to see yourself get killed quickly by marines with good aim.

    Gorges are cheaper and buffed overall. Early game, you're about the only lifeform that should be choosing carapace. The others should grab regen in most situations, which does stack with your healspray in combat to great effect. Remember to take advantage of pack gameplay, and push as a group to crush strategic positions of the map, while the rest of the team either bites RTs or attempts to snipe vulnerable upgrades in the enemy main. With gorges costing 5 res, it's even cheaper and easier to convince teammates to go for a sneaky bile rush multiple times throughout the game. Watch out for emergency powered structures, but 3-4 gorges with bile can cripple a base frighteningly quickly, even without adrenaline or enzyme.

    Fades now punish overcommitment to a fight and trying to kill multiple marines head-on without any sort of plan, the element of surprise, or backup. Again, tips for the new movement are here: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/disc...unity-p#latest. With videoguides here: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/disc...to-advanced/p1. Note that the mouse sway he mentions is not necessary (only a smooth change in one direction when turning corners or strafe jumping), and the high speeds he reaches aren't as easy (or possible?) to achieve without celerity and leap.

    Once movement is learned, fades benefit from slickly moving in and out of an existing engagement- popping in for a few swipes, sliding out and regening, before running back in for either finishes or to rinse and repeat until you do kill. Beware of shotguns even more so than before- their fire rate has increased, likely to provide marines with more of a defense against the "Fadesplosion" we saw in both pub and competitive matches in 249. The skill requirement to do well has actually been lowered as Fade, despite claims to the contrary, although I'm convinced that we haven't seen the best of what skilled players will be able to do with the new Fade yet.

    Onos, to quote someone else, "is still an Onos". Gore range is decreased so jetpacks are a bit scarier and stomp isn't a giant screw you button for groups of marines anymore, but you are still a devastating lifeform when played intelligently (the most important thing being to avoid overcommitment; you should just about always leave a fight earlier than you feel you need to, even if your gorges mock you for it).


    On the Khammander side of things:

    The biggest thing that I have seen going wrong and that I have been scolded for following when commanding myself, is that very many commanders who play only in public games (and I do not mean that in an insulting way) have a skewed idea of how many RTs they need. Aliens can survive on roughly 2 RTs, and realistically would have about 3 RTs at most times in the game before the (hopefully) inevitable Fadesplosion. Aliens thrive on 4 RTs, are terrifying to marines on 5, and obviously either outskill or outplayed the marines if on 6 or more.

    Public commanders were used to tentative marines in the past, and often cysted up two-thirds of the map before 5 minutes were up, and -attempted- to drop as many as 6 RTs, and expected to hold about 4 or more. Again, unless you feel like you've heavily outplayed or outskill your opponent- don't do that!!! Marines are both more confident because of improved hitreg and bullet size, and less likely to turtle because of the Armory-armor changes, so expect more fighting on -your- territory. Factor that in with the drifter (or gorge, or shift echo) limitation on building harvesters, and you should only be cysting to the harvesters in the closest or most defensible locations, and making it a priority for your team to protect them (instead of spreading thin the pack gameplay mentioned above, and trying to have your troops bounce between 5+ harvesters AND keep enemy extractors down).

    Just because you now only seek to hold ~3 harvesters doesn't mean you are giving up map control. You still want to be biting down marine res towers and trying to keep their phases out of the key map locations- it's just that you're not burdening your offensive troops with defending half of the map at the same time. With 3-4 harvesters, you can still expect Fades up somewhere between 9 (maybe) to 12 minutes (if you lose a lot of res towers), which is perfect timing if you've been keeping their res down and delaying either their upgrades or other tech.


    Overall, I'm extremely happy with the changes in 250 and think that once the new alien changes are incorporated into player gameplay, we will begin to see some stunning games. I don't claim that all of the words above are the gospel- I'm a competitive player but not the top player or on the top team by any means, I just mean to give advice from the perspective of someone that's been scrimming, playing games, and watching games that involve a lot of the changes from 250 (the balance test mod).

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    • #3
      Re: The new NS2?

      Yep.

      I've played BT as much as I could over the last week, and yesterday before the patch I was on TG wishing I had my biomass, or umbra.

      Give it time, and you'll love it. It's a bit closer to NS1 in some good ways, but there's still some edges to be resolved.

      I don't care for the unlimited sprint, or the flamethrower and GL spam. Expecially the lack of counter to GL, which was a 249 issue as well. Lerks as paper thin now, and a decent shotty wipes them out quickly, so I feel terrified to try and bite someone. I think the shotty is now the go to weapon like NS1, and needs to be scaled back. One weapon should not work well as a lifeform destroyer AND structure killer.

      I'd like to see leap and umbra switch places, though, just because unlimited sprint marines make hit and run all but impossible with skulks.

      Overall, though, there's now a chance to have different strategies, and chances to come back. There's now more room for strategy instead of fades to carry us and 2 20-2 marines (although that still ruins games).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The new NS2?

        This is a pretty worthless post but imo build 250 is poop

        They should of changed the game slowly not in one big patch.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The new NS2?

          I like it overall, sometimes its good to mix the game up so it doesn't get stale over time. Next patches won't be such huge changes all at once like this one though. Commanding is more fun.
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          • #6
            Re: The new NS2?

            I am trying to like it though I can't find a way to enjoy it. Maybe it wasn't helped by the last couple of games, we were on a server where the teams were usually stacked. I prefer small changes over time, not a new game. It also feels like some people got very good at the new version and doing the beta might have aided a lot. The scores on some of the servers seem less distributed and most people have negative scores, while a few people have overwhelming kill death ratios.

            One thing that doesn't help is I got a new table and cleaned it up with pledge. I am not use to such a slick surface so that might add to my bias against the game.
            Lights Out!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The new NS2?

              Forcing players to re-learn mechanics of the game is something more devs should do. It can narrow the skill gap while temporarily making for more competitive games, it makes for a newer, more refreshing experience, and it's nice not knowing the answer to every single question.

              Complaints that other players are out playing you are... uh... well that's the point I'm trying to make. You can't be king of the hill forever, sometimes you gotta work hard at this game.

              KDA is not something anyone should be too concerned with while playing on TG.

              If they did this every 50 updates or so, with some relatively large balance changes all at once... I for one would be ok with this. It doesn't allow for a persistent strategy to develop and gain too much dominance, which is really key for public play.
              Skud


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              • #8
                Re: The new NS2?

                I'm finding that the majority of matches are lasting between 45 minutes - 1 hour. Aliens are designed to hit hard and finish early game, past 25 minutes if marines can survive with 2 res towers, they'll have enough res for full upgrades and pump out exos to push out of base and knock down a hive. It feels like the games aren't about strategic movement any longer, as a marine it's all about holding on just long enough until exo's or flamethrower/GL's are ready. As aliens it's trying to be aggressive enough to obliterate Marines, destroy their IPs if you don't get it done by the 20 minute marker you have a 1/500 shot of ending it at all thanks to the fact that marines can power up any structure and can recycle their advanced weapons and share them with eachother. If you don't win in the first 20-30 minutes, grit your teeth, time to get used to dying a lot as your hive get slowly picked apart because you can't Concede because there's more than 1 hive.
                DO AS I COMMAND - Megatron possibly the hardest working commander ever known.

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                • #9
                  Re: The new NS2?

                  I played my first 4 games tonight. Really enjoyed it. I'm curious to see what I think after more time with it.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                  • #10
                    Re: The new NS2?

                    It is getting a little better as I am getting use to my super slick desk as well as playing on non-TG servers can not be nearly as fun. It isn't as bad as I was first thinking and I am glad I am sticking with it, I guess.
                    Lights Out!

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