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  • lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

    CS = command structure

    WinOrLose is clearly a success. It gives us all more time to enjoy the suspense of the yet undetermined game.

    I included the one-CS feature in the WinOrLose design because the post-vote timer only leaves time for killing one CS. In time, folks figured out how to drop a second CS /after/ the vote, such that the winning team had two to kill inside the time limit. So, I changed the mod such that a team losing a CS post-vote loses every CS (and, so, the game).

    Teams these days are regularly ready to WinOrLose despite having more than one CS.

    I thought about losing the one-CS requirement, such that votes would be allowed when the team has more than one CS. My thinking was that, if they lost even one CS post-vote, they'd lose (again, that's how the mod has behaved for some time now -- lose one CS post-vote, lose them all, and the game).

    I've come up with one concern I can't resolve in my head: which CS will the winning team choose to target? How often will they split up and not destroy any CS at all? Does it matter if that happens? Is game end all that matters, whomever "wins"? Is it a non-issue, b/c the winning team will /typically/ just yell out a location and descend upon it? Winning teams regularly call out the target CS location to each other post-vote. Could they manage that so simply if there were multiple options? Perhaps using the minimap to see who-was-where once the successful WinOrLose was announced?

    Do you see any other problems/objections with losing the one-CS restriction on WinOrLose? Thoughts? Opinions?
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

    I think it would be nice if it was removed. That is a good point though. Maybe if there is a way to get CS health and they have to destroy the CS with the highest health. Or, just pick at random, or just one hive and they lose. Or, make it so that the winorlose time is longer, say 3 minutes to destroy the remaining 2 CS's. Gives satisfaction of winning still.

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    • #3
      Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

      We've been at a one minute timer for some time now.

      I think the winning team could handle the coordination of selecting from more than one CS, and I think that a one-minute-per-CS timer would allow for the few times that failed. As a losing team that's calling WinOrLose, that's just the price you pay: if you call it with more than one CS, then you agree to a /potentially/ (only if winning team isn't coordinated) longer post-vote.
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

        What if there was a 2 max CS limit, and in this example aliens called the winorlose with 2 hives. The marines have 2:30 minutes to destroy both bases. If the marines don't destroy both bases in 2:30(30 seconds for walking to the other hive) the aliens have a chance to win by destroying 2 of the MARINES chairs in 2:30. If the aliens then fail this the marines win.

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        • #5
          Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

          I say make the change to two, still require only one to be killed, and extend the timer 15 seconds to make up for possible confusion in picking one of the two locations. So 1:15 to kill one of the two locations.
          |TG-6th|Snooggums

          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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          • #6
            Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

            I think as long as you still have 2 comm chairs, you still have a chance. If they exploit it, can't you do auto win for the other team? I wouldn't mind seeing winorloose evolve into something more like overtime in CO mode. Not allow for chair to be repaired, increase dmg and hp of winning team by 2x. Allow loosing team to fight back. Then adjust timer to give the winning team a 90%+ win rate.
            Lights Out!

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            • #7
              Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

              I like this. The timer value always has to be tweaked after live observation across several situations, but this is doable and addresses the need I see.
              Originally posted by snooggums View Post
              I say make the change to two, still require only one to be killed, and extend the timer 15 seconds to make up for possible confusion in picking one of the two locations. So 1:15 to kill one of the two locations.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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              • #8
                Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

                Some of the best games were two chairs come backs. Even when I wanted to throw in the towel, we couldn't. If we do the two cc then I think it will make people give up to quickly. I think it will also create a feeling of apathy as people will want to end the game and have already quit mentally, just because they can end it, but someone like me would not concede.


                On a different note it would be nice to only have a 75% pass required to concede. That is already more than what congress requires to pass a bill. It can painful to have those turtles, when you can't get those two people to concede, granted you should kick people who don't listen, but kicking for a T can be harder than you think, if they have never done it.

                No matter what a winorloose still doesn't feel like a victory. I want the other team to have a slight chance of winning.
                Lights Out!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

                  Originally posted by solarity View Post
                  Some of the best games were two chairs come backs.
                  There's no requirement that a team give up at any point, and the winorlose will still require all but one player to pass the vote unless I missed something.
                  |TG-6th|Snooggums

                  Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

                    though when people are trying to get the votes, they are spending less time playing and more time trying to get others to quit.
                    Lights Out!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

                      You say that, every once in a while, one of those wanted-to-throw-in-the-towel-but-couldn't games turns into a glorious victory. No doubt those are fun. And such is a common argument: we could still win!!1

                      But possibility and likelihood are not the same thing. My preference is typically to honestly acknowledge Likelihood with apologies to Possibility.

                      Having two hives is not interesting if your situation leaves you very likely to lose the game. To whatever degree lots of people share that outlook, a plugin shouldn't prevent giving up.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

                        mirage had an idea tonight that I'm going to implement, and we're going to try it out (once I get it implemented).

                        A team may WoL w/ two command structures. The unmanned (if none is manned, one will be chosen) command structure will disappear immediately, and the winning team will have to kill the remaining command structure.

                        I'll likely leave the timer at 60 (unless that proves terrible). It's rare that the status quo sees the timer hit 20, and people have really liked the swiftness that low WoL timers bring.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

                          I like that idea!

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                          • #14
                            Re: lose one-CS requirement on WinOrLose?

                            We may now concede with two command structures. One is removed upon successful vote. Remaining's location is advertised to all.
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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