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Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

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  • Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

    So I saw this thread http://forums.unknownworlds.com/disc...o-slots#latest on UWE's forums, and someone mentioned how much they hate the reserve slots on servers, referring to TG indirectly, so I was thinking if there was a way TG could put "7 slot reserve" in the title for the server. Since I don't think it is possible for the server code to read if there is 16 > slots until after someone loads the map and joins the game.
    Last edited by SamusDroid; 07-02-2013, 02:43 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

    I tried this in March. For a week, I counted the number of unique SteamIDs which connected to the server (including failed attempts when the server was full). Then, I added slots information to the server name and counted again for the week following.

    In the second week, 20% /more/ unique SteamIDs connected to the server than the week before.

    We users don't read. :(

    239 was the build for both weeks. (that is, it's not like a new exciting build got released mid-test to skew the numbers)

    In January, UWE conveyed to server operators that they were working on a reserved slots solution. I made it clear in that discussion that two things are needed:

    ) ability to lie about how many public slots you have
    ) ability to show kick reasons

    These are not a reserved slots solution. These /enable/ communities to build their /own/. I do hope UWE provides these things, and soon, independent of whatever "solution" they bake in (if any).

    I'll raise the issue again with UWE in the server operators list.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

      Gee, that Crazy Eddie posts in ANY thread where our server is mentioned.

      What a nice troll.
      Skud


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      • #4
        Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

        Yeah we tried the title thing didn't work so well. Through the process of trial and error, most people learn, while others don't and troll forums. While I think lieing about the slots is good, I can't see UWE adding it as some people will use/abuse it to get people to seed a server. Eddie seems to be our biggest fan.

        While some of those guys hate the redirect script, I think they did it poorly. Don't send people to another full server. I could see how looping could be frustrating. Only redirect them if it isn't full or kick them.

        At least our devs have gone out of their way to be fair to new comers. You can only do so much and you can't make everyone happy.
        Lights Out!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

          Eddie has a problematic sense of entitlement, but I empathize with his pain. I've been denied entry to the full server a few times. Calling him names isn't going to help anything. Potentially quite the opposite, in fact. I know a few among us who could take notes on how to remain composed when faced with the frustration he feels over this.

          That all having been said, I don't see change on our horizon unless/until UWE provides assistance in some way.

          I've thought about implementing intelligent (other-server-playercount-aware) redirection, but it just doesn't feel worth the trouble to me, especially considering how likely it is to simply upset everyone further.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

            Could you put a message that says please try our other server in the kick spam console message? I try to help seed the other server as much as I can, would like to see more regs doing this instead getting people kicked. I use to seed all the time when I was a supporting member.
            Lights Out!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

              I'm still of the opinion that an automatic password would be the best stop gap solution until UWE gets around to proper reserved slots.

              I feel that in the grand scheme of things, it would be much better to (possibly?) inconvenience a handful of regulars by TG using passwords when "full" rather than having every single potential regular that tries to join a server only to be denied entry after loading.
              aka Roland tHTG

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              • #8
                Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                Originally posted by bentring View Post
                I'm still of the opinion that an automatic password would be the best stop gap solution until UWE gets around to proper reserved slots.

                I feel that in the grand scheme of things, it would be much better to (possibly?) inconvenience a handful of regulars by TG using passwords when "full" rather than having every single potential regular that tries to join a server only to be denied entry after loading.
                I also agree with this. While a previous statement about trolls was not directed at eddie, but some others that have had said some not so kind words about us. Eddie main point is if we put a password he would stop complaining. I wouldn't say he is entitled, though many people on UWE forum are. I would rather have a few members being inconvienced, than a whole community. It would also open the doors of our servers to many previous credics. At least silent the complaints. Yeah sure we will never make the anti-reserved slot people happy. Though at least we should put some consideration for the people only complaining about the browser false positives.
                Lights Out!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                  I can totally see why the title didn't work. People can't read even if it said they won a million dollars. Similar to PAYDAY 2 and people asking when the beta is like 100 times even though there is an obvious pinned thread.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                    I think that a password would be the best solution as well. I understand that it could potentially be an inconvenience to Supporting Members, but I really do think the ramifications across the NS2 community as a whole should be considered. I empathize with the fact that UWE seems to be dragging their feet on helping server Admins out. That said, when the game has player retention problems to begin with, I think we really should take notice and adapt when new players site 'auto-kick on join' reserved slots as being one of the reasons for their departure.

                    Unfortunately, the system keeps quite a few mainstays of the ns2 community from joining as well (along with our servers' recent disappointing tendency to quickly call out "hacking" on genuine players, with only one legitimate hacking incident that I can tell... but I'll post with more on that if it continues to be an issue), and I really think that we'd have a much more enriching experience on both of our servers by bringing some of those people into our games.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                      Could we take a poll of people joining via a shortcut instead of a the game browser? Everytime we try to defend the system, we shreaded with negative comments and feedback on the UWE forums. Most people are fed up with connecting and being kicked. Granted we will have some haters from having a reserved slot system, though you can never please everyone. Though it would be nice not having to waste people's time loading only to be kicked.
                      Lights Out!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                        I've also been following the thread on the NS forums, and it seems to me that its something UWE is going to have to to fix. I don't like the idea of pass wording the server, for the following reasons:

                        1) Many times people will just think its a scrim or clan server with private games only
                        2) TG could consistently get skipped by people filtering out passworded games, especially during peak times everynight.
                        3) People may be less likely to "auto-join" when its passworded, thinking that it's going to stay that way when they're not familiar with the 'full server locking' mechanism

                        And some observations from people on the NS forums\in game about the reserved slot system:

                        In Game: "This reserved slot system is stupid! It says 18/23 but I'm getting kicked! Reserved slots are dumb and so is the server!"
                        On forums: "Reserved slot servers that kick me for not being a paying member makes me angry, I avoid these at all costs!"
                        Both: "I shouldn't have to pay to play on a server, the internet is free!"
                        Some are reasonable concerns, others are not. Personally I think the system works fine as it is now, barring some official reserve slot system implemented by UWE which IS needed. The server mods ALREADY go out of the way to accommodate non-SMs as much as possible:

                        1) When server is full of P and S, two slots are let open for random ? people that usually experience great games during these times. IMO, rookies trying to join the server should get preference over random ? peeps. Seeing lots of teamwork should hopefully create loyalty to the server/community, especially for someone new to the game. They're also usually doe-eyed and are almost always more willing to listen than a potentially seasoned ? person.

                        2) Primer signers get a semi-reserved slot

                        IMO, you should look at results rather than a handful of complainers in the game\forums. The system works pretty well at keeping the server full night after night. It's like a busy club that's hard to get into unless you got the VIP pass. If somebody sees enough value in it, they won't mind paying a small monthly fee to have access to premium entertainment to avoid being kicked. All this being said, I think this should be the course of action once somebody is up for being kicked for a reserved slot:

                        1) Person is flashed in text a warning about being kicked for a reserved slot, so they know what's going on. I think this is already implemented.
                        2) Instead of being returned to the main menu, the person is moved to spectating the same game they were just playing in off server. This would be essentially the same thing as typing 'spec-aeroripper' and joining the server.
                        3) Anybody who joins when say the server is 19/23, will automatically be moved to spectate


                        ^ IIRC, this was the same thing we did with the old NS1 server and it worked pretty well. They're multiple benefits to this solution over getting kicked to the main menu. It's a softer landing then being forced to join a different server, and it keeps people involved with the ongoing game. In addition, all those people trying to join (especially all the new people due to the sale) will at least get to watch the game in progress and if there's a lot going on, will be more apt to join later on once a slot frees up, instead of getting their game for the night on another server. There would be enough informational prompts to inform the player what is going on, such as:

                        "You are being moved to spectator to make room for a reserved slot."

                        "The server is currently full, you are now in spectator mode. Feel free to rejoin when an open slot frees up! Visit our forums at www.tacticalgamer.com, or ask a SM for information on our reserved slots!"

                        Not sure how much work this would be, but at minimum moving someone to spectate would be less painful then removing them off the server, and would hopefully keep them interested with playing on the server later.
                        Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                        Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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                        • #13
                          Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                          Areo, you can't please everyone, but we can please a lot of people by not having people join only to be kicked.

                          The idea of having passwords is to specificly filter it out of the list, but only when the server reaches 16 players. When it drops below 16 the password is removed and it shows up back on the list. This is being used by other servers with reserved slots.
                          Lights Out!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                            The count of regulars we've newly retained in the last month is greater than the count of complainers in the UWE forums. It sucks to see good people suffer, but the wound UWE is causing /us/ isn't large enough to dress. The wound they're causing the playerbase /at large/ is, but that ball is and should be in their court, not ours.

                            If the next three builds get released without including some way for server operators to lie about public slots count (or something which handsomely obviates that need), I'll be very surprised.

                            Regarding the "spectator" idea, which I'd LOVE to see happen:

                            We disallow "hackusations" not so much because cheating doesn't happen (it does, RARELY, and we address it privately and swiftly), but moreso because players being constantly /distracted/ by the /prospect/ of cheating harms gameplay /much/ more than the occasional /actual/ "h4x".

                            The strangers-coming-and-going-from-Spectate-to-gameplay-and-back-again idea is problematic not so much because strangers will ghost (they will), but because players will be ever-distracted by the /prospect/ of players ghosting, and that /will/ harm gameplay far more than /actual/ ghosting.
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Outside feedback reguarding reserve slots, mentioning TG, and how we could fix it

                              I've changed our server names to show support for this effort:

                              http://forums.unknownworlds.com/disc...reserved-slots
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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