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  • Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

    Please read all of this. There's a lot that's changed, and it's going to try your patience, and this post is my best effort to mitigate that discomfort.

    I've begun efforts to migrate us from DAK to Shine in an effort to lessen the friction we all feel administering the server. If DAK and Shine aren't familiar to you, they're mods that facilitate NS2 server administration. DAK has helped us grow, and I fear we've outgrown it. We're going to give Shine some time to......... do well.

    I've been working on this just about non-stop for two weeks, and I've decided to deploy to the servers despite SEVERAL rough edges, as I see none of them as critical defects. Reserved slots work. Temp Admin "works". Scoreboard icons work.

    Please report here anything and everything you find that's changed for the worse (feel free to praise changes for the better!), and I'll address problems as quickly as I'm able. Feel free also to post ideas that you think might be more practical now that we have new UI technology on the server.

    LOTS of variables and settings aren't right yet, so take caution assuming my intent as you see the state of the server. For example, I don't intend for our custom maps to go away, but they're gone for the moment.

    I've gone live with these changes despite blemishes so that I can polish this over the next week and have a few days of relative stability before Reinforced is released on Aug 30. I don't want to be changing admin mods and major game versions too close together. I've got a family trip and a business convention between me and that launch date, so I'm quickly running out of time.

    Examples of current weaknesses (this is NOT an exhaustive list):

    * guardians/tempadmins don't lose privileges when they should
    * you can WinOrLose w/ 3 command structures (this will likely remain, as I've put Shine in charge of WinOrLose vote management)
    * spectators can't hear players
    * mapcycle times and values will require adjustment
    * votes will need different configurations
    * whois seems to work only on yourself?! WTF! Ugh.
    * terrible defects I haven't even found yet will have to be reported and addressed

    Goodbye isn't implemented yet. Captains isn't implemented yet. Tempban isn't implemented yet. Those will come, and they'll be menu-driven, too.

    Admin chat (@) and SM chat (#) aren't implemented yet.

    You'll now see "Shine" and "TGNS" listed as mods when you join the server. If either updates during a map, new clients can't connect until the map changes. I don't like this, but I can't change it. Over the next week, I'll be making FREQUENT updates to the TGNS mod, which WILL prevent some of us from joining until a map change. I'm sorry.

    Press 'm' for the menu. When you're in your console, execute 'tg_help' to get help on commands you can execute (this list may change during the next couple of weeks). Our Shine adoption forces all commands into one of three prefixes: sv_ (stock NS2), sh_ (Shine out-of-the-box), and tg_ (TGNS-specific commands).

    I'm sure there's something important I'm forgetting. Please help me identify what still needs attention, and please be patient as I address everything. Thank you. :)
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

    Data like score history, taglines, player aliases, opt-ins, etc -- that's all been preserved.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

      A note on the whois: I was unable to get confirmation last night since you guys were talking about something else, but it's not that the whois only works for yourself - it seems to only output the results to that specific player, regardless of who typed the command. I assume you guys tried to look up my aliases a few times and saw nothing appear, but when I opened my console I saw my own whois info appear three times despite the fact that I had not used the command yet. I then tried using the command on myself which output the same information, yet it was silent when I tried to look up info for Wyzcrak. I assume that should've output into your console.

      Having thought about this some more, is there any way to completely replace all the various console commands with one specific prefix? Having 3 different ones would cause an immense amount of confusion, especially if they all have commands that do roughly similar things.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

        Ah! You've solved tg_whois for me. I'll push that fix out tonight. Thank you!

        I'll consolidate all the prefixes to sh_ (some sv_ commands will still exist for full admins, but they're not many, and I can't change those). That might take a couple days.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

          Hats off for the work you put into the server Wzy, even if it makes me think you're slightly insane for NS2 coding more than playing. ;)
          aka Roland tHTG

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

            Originally posted by bentring View Post
            even if it makes me think you're slightly insane for NS2 coding more than playing. ;)
            Tell that to most of the UWE devs, lol.

            Wyz, glad I could help pinpoint the problem with whois relatively easily. :P
            Sounds good to have everything consolidated into one prefix though - sh_help, sh_helplist and tg_help really made me scratch my head and wonder "why?"
            SV commands reserved for full admins should be OK - there aren't too many that I've seen, and most of the time they are not needed. Just getting the main / often-used ones into one format is the biggest priority so that people can start learning the new system.

            I also have high hopes for the population of the new GUI menu.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

              Hey Wyz I don't know if this is on my end or the server's, but it won't let me join either server. It says "Server mod out of date" and kicks me back to the main menu.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                I'm not able to join either server as well.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                  Sounds like you guys may have to wait until map change.
                  If Wyz updates a server mod, your client automatically downloads the newest version on server connection, but the server itself does not update the mod until it switches to a new map, which means there will occasionally be times that the mods will be mismatched.

                  Unfortunately, there's no real way around this since it's a limitation of how workshop mods interact with NS2.
                  Now, if Wyz didn't actually update anything... then something is seriously broken.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                    Originally posted by DarkScythe View Post
                    Now, if Wyz didn't actually update anything... then something is seriously broken.
                    This applies. As of this writing, my last update to the mod was Aug 21, 2013 @ 1:35am.

                    Everything Dark described is accurate, including the last sentence (which I've quoted).

                    I don't know why you guys weren't able to join, and I don't know how often that will happen. Obviously, that's problematic. Perhaps workshop was failing to deliver files altogether?
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                      So, of the bugs I encountered tonight, there was the issue with Admin/SM chat disappearing into the void for us normal users which we went over on the server.
                      There was also what appeared to be a bug with surrender voting, where immediately after we surrendered and WinOrLose kicked in, the voting suddenly restarted and would accept votes again.

                      As well, Yack was unable to figure out how to manually change the map while he was a T; I assume he tried sv_changemap, and sh_help did not reveal any map changing commands - This could be an issue with command assignment, or various commands broken while you migrate over to the sh_* prefix.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                        Prefixes all changed to sh_ (save the sv_ exceptions most won't ever see).

                        Admin and SM chats fixed (really?).

                        sh_changelevel added to Temp Admins.

                        Surrender voting not addressed. Can someone give reliable steps to reproduce?

                        sh_help now shows the chat invocations of the commands (those which support chat invocations).

                        Still missing altogether: custom maps, captains, tempban, goodbye, spectators can't hear players, ..... what am I forgetting?

                        Please keep reporting defects! Please keep giving feedback!
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                          Spectators can now hear non-spectator players.

                          Still broken: guardian/tempadmin don't lose permissions when they should

                          Still missing altogether: custom maps, captains, tempban, goodbye

                          What am I forgetting? What don't you like?
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                            I don't like that I'm not an admin! :P

                            On a serious note, is there a configurable option in Shine Admin to prevent the current and/or previous map from being listed as options for map voting?
                            There are probably exceptions, but most of the time it seems like after 2 rounds on a particular map, everyone is ready to move on and having the current map listed as an option to choose to play next seems kind of silly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Under Construction (DAK => Shine)

                              I'm kind of liking the pause for voting at the end of the maps rotation (no team join). I just think the voting time should be shortened to 60 seconds since high fives in the ready room generally only take that long, and it gives you some time for a break in between maps. I also agree with above that the current map should be excluded from voting if possible.
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