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  • bring back FF for NS2.

    just starting a thread about having friendly fire mod included on servers (as per brief in game discussion earlier today about FF).

  • #2
    Re: bring back FF for NS2.

    Personally, I'd rather not have FF due to new grenades.

    If we somehow removed access to those grenades, I may consider it. But, for the few games I've played.. people like to spam those grenades, and there's nothing wrong with that until you add FF. I suppose we could implement standards that said do not spam grenades if you are near a team mate or something of the sort, but, imho, it seems like it's just going to be another battle to control something in the server.

    With balance issues, what some would call stacking, recent changes to balance in game from UWE, etc etc... it may be a little overwhelming for the moment.

    Perhaps it's something we could explore later when we have a little bit more equilibrium in the server.

    With all that being said, I've always been a fan of FF in games. I think it forces players to act in a more tactical manner, and slows people down. NS is the ONLY game I've ever played where I wasn't a huge advocate for FF. Just a little too much AoE dmg, especially in NS2 (flamethrower, hand grenades, shotgun spread, GL) to include FF, imho. It's not very realistic, and I know that... but if we turn on FF, we're going to all but eliminate survivability for GL users (I can't shoot my grenades into the skulk eating my friends, so when he eats all my friends, he eats me no problem).

    It's certainly something I think needs to be discussed. :)

    Mom
    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
    Forever Perplexed

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: bring back FF for NS2.

      I'd be up for using it during captains games (auto enable it and announce so), or other controlled times. Maybe once the regulars become accustomed to it, it could then be made standard.

      I agree that if one simply flips the switch, accidental grief and misuse will make it unwelcome pretty quickly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: bring back FF for NS2.

        Friendly fire is likely officially on its way into the game, sooner rather than later. It is in use for all official NSL matches, and sewlek is already tweaking it a bit based on feedback.

        YerMom, you definitely bring up a good point- hand grenade spam is the only issue that I see potentially rising, but otherwise I've very much enjoyed how 33% FF has subtly changed team fights. Team kills don't really happen all that often, but it forces both marines and aliens (for example, grinding phase gates) to watch their positioning instead of grouping up into a big blob that soaks up all incoming damage.

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        • #5
          Re: bring back FF for NS2.

          I enjoyed it reasonably well back when it was in NS1. Wouldn't mind seeing it return in an official capacity with a server switch (sv_friendlyfire 1).
          Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
          Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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          • #6
            Re: bring back FF for NS2.

            I would only support this for captains games until FF becomes more widespread (if it actually does), way too much explaining and TK potential with randoms involved.

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            • #7
              Re: bring back FF for NS2.

              I vote for self inflicting FF.
              aka Roland tHTG

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                Originally posted by YerMom View Post
                Personally, I'd rather not have FF due to new grenades.

                If we somehow removed access to those grenades, I may consider it. But, for the few games I've played.. people like to spam those grenades, and there's nothing wrong with that until you add FF. I suppose we could implement standards that said do not spam grenades if you are near a team mate or something of the sort, but, imho, it seems like it's just going to be another battle to control something in the server.

                With balance issues, what some would call stacking, recent changes to balance in game from UWE, etc etc... it may be a little overwhelming for the moment.

                Perhaps it's something we could explore later when we have a little bit more equilibrium in the server.

                With all that being said, I've always been a fan of FF in games. I think it forces players to act in a more tactical manner, and slows people down. NS is the ONLY game I've ever played where I wasn't a huge advocate for FF. Just a little too much AoE dmg, especially in NS2 (flamethrower, hand grenades, shotgun spread, GL) to include FF, imho. It's not very realistic, and I know that... but if we turn on FF, we're going to all but eliminate survivability for GL users (I can't shoot my grenades into the skulk eating my friends, so when he eats all my friends, he eats me no problem).

                It's certainly something I think needs to be discussed. :)

                Mom
                From what I recall about FF in NS1 at TG, it impacted even GL's, and in those cases that you described, you would use the most accurate ranged weapon in game :P (pistol).


                I am all for FF, something we had since 2003 (if I recall correctly), this actually allowed me to time my shots and not spray and pray (even though I cant hit crap anyhow even now, but that's me), FF removes the arcade feel to the game.

                Also about the nades, from the games I played on TGNS this week, I see that very few people use the nades, and there is no, or not yet, a tactical approach from a commander towards the nade usage (ie: comm says "everyone buy Cluster nades, and bomb the node, or upgrade chambers etc.) I realize they have been added a month or 2 ago, but still.
                During the nade usage, people on the server would throw it wisely like they have back in NS1.

                This would allow the 'newcomers' to learn and adapt quickly to our server, and have something different to play, rather than just another server without FF.

                Our rules about teamwork, communication and friendly approach to the new comers have set that precedence being a different server from the rest, having FF will simply extend that further.

                As for 'misuse' of FF, well that is all part of teamwork and communication, we have admins, temp admins etc to deal with that. It will not be an issue, just like it was not in NS1.

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                • #9
                  Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                  Can someone get me the technical details on how I enable FF on the server? Is it another mod? A setting?
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                  • #10
                    Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                    There is a mod on the workshop for friendly fire, as far as I know NSL enables friendly fire in their matches using a mod as well (rolled into their NSL mod, also on the workshop).

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                    • #11
                      Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                      I could see this being a bad thing for marines. Does lerk gas affect aliens? Does gorge bial harm aliens armor or structures. Will rines set off mines? With marines relying on a lot of fire power esp with heavies in the area. Also do marines go splat with green when hit by a rail gun? I can see where this could be used more in ns1, though this will most likely make make nade launchers even less used.
                      Lights Out!

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                      • #12
                        Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                        Originally posted by solarity View Post
                        Does lerk gas affect aliens? No

                        Does gorge bial harm aliens armor or structures. No

                        Will rines set off mines? No

                        Also do marines go splat with green when hit by a rail gun? Only a direct hit would apply damage i think
                        Obviously would need to look at details like this but Sewlek is now looking at FF in the balance (beta) test mod so I assume there may be an "official" version of FF that will balance what causes FF and what doesn't. Also it is only 33% damage and from what I have been told for direct damage attacks only (bullets, bites, swipes, spikes etc).

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                        • #13
                          Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                          Someone please link me to the Steam Workshop mod that you guys want to try out on the server.
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                            The NSL mod I mentioned before contains a few other things for competitive matches so it is not really suitable unless you pull out just the FF bits. The FF mod looks like it is out of date though, last update Nov 2012.

                            NSL Mod:
                            steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=170777320

                            FF mod:
                            steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=108702868 (since apparently I can only post 1 URL?)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: bring back FF for NS2.

                              I just had a thought that concerns me, and intrigues me as well.

                              All this talk of marines being unbalanced vs skulks......

                              It seems to me that FF would inflict a heavier toll on Marines than it would on Aliens for the aforementioned reasons (see crymeariver's quote), among other things.

                              I'd be interested in testing FF on the server to establish whether or not the splash AoE FF damage from nades, flamethrowers, etc would possibly balance out marines vs skulks. I can imagine a group of marines with cluster grenades or a GL or flamethrower vs 1 skulk leaping thru the room not even trying to attack Marines....

                              The concern I have at this point is that if we enable FF, how many people are just going to completely stop using AoE dmg weapons? I'd imagine we won't know till we smoke test, but if people are just going to stop using AoE stuff, we might as well not even mess with FF, imho.

                              Mom
                              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                              Forever Perplexed

                              Comment

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