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  • Captains Games team-picking change

    Gone is "pick first, pick two". Instead, we're going to try "pick player, pick team (and then player)".

    Feel free to start it immediately, and I'll roll out a change to the mod soon which makes it clear which Captain gets which each time.

    To be clear, for example:

    Wyz and Re-Traced are Captains. Mod will randomly state:

    Wyzcrak: Player Choice! Re-Traced: Team Choice!

    Nothing has changed about the following:

    By design (to keep coding simpler for me and leave humans in control if they need it): The mod doesn't enforce who picks whom when or what team they join.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: Captains Games team-picking change

    Wasn't the 'pick one, pick two' formula a left over from NS1? I assumed it was done that way because aliens didn't have a comm back then.
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    • #3
      Re: Captains Games team-picking change

      'Twas. Can't recall its original motivations.
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: Captains Games team-picking change

        Original motivation is the team with the first player pick always has an advantage if both captains pick well.

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        • #5
          Re: Captains Games team-picking change

          What is the advantage to getting the pick of the team as you switch teams? Also by not doing pick two for 2nd pick this means the 2nd not only gets 2nd pick, but they get one less pick as they get the last person by default. This will put even more of a disadvantge if there is a ringer like josh or happy.

          As I said in another post 1+ 4=5 and 2+3=5. Compare this with 4 vs 6 if we do no pick two. So in the long run 1st pick will always have an advantage.
          Lights Out!

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          • #6
            Re: Captains Games team-picking change

            sol, will you expound on your x+y=z w/ more words for me? I'm not catching your point, and I long to.

            The hope in this change is to lessen the likelihood that the game is largely determined by a team having three powerhouses (Captain+2) after the first pick.

            In response to your "last person" point: perhaps Captain who chooses team also gets his choice of the last two players?
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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            • #7
              Re: Captains Games team-picking change

              Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
              In response to your "last person" point: perhaps Captain who chooses team also gets his choice of the last two players?
              I might be misunderstanding your point here - it sounds like giving the captain the ability to reserve two players for the end, which doesn't make much difference from allowing them to pick two to begin with.
              I assume the intent was that once the available pool of players falls to under ~4 or so that the second captain gets to fill out his team before the first captain does.

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              • #8
                Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                Semantics aside, I was saying that the Captain who initially chose second would get a "premium" choice from among the smaller pool toward the end of the team-picking process. Maybe they pick twice in a row toward the end or something.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                • #9
                  Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                  I was stating that 1st and 4th pick gives you a total of 5 fairness points and 2nd and 3rd also gives you 5 fairness points. We could go as far to say an even better system is that 1st pick gets that and last pick. Other than 1st and last the captains alternate picking 2 the whole way down that gives both teams 68 fairness points.

                  Team 1: 1,4,5,8,9,12,13,16
                  Team 2: 2,3,6,7,10,11,14,15
                  Add each pick place and it equals 68 for both teams.

                  This would differ from the current T2:65 to T1:71 (lower the better)

                  When I did cross country in high school the lower score always won. If you had 5 people cross the finish line. The lowest possible score is 15 (1,2,3,4,5). If you had the 1st and 4th and the other team had 2nd and 3rd. The score would be tied, until the other people finished the race. Granted you cant tie in CC as the odd number of runners (5) makes that impossible, though if you had an even number like 4 or 6 then it could be possible to tie.

                  To be honest I think the big issue here is to insure we have two equally skilled players as captains. Maybe even auto nominate based off time played on the server for the past month. A less skilled captain can win if he knows who to pick. I remember when we lost twice when happycat was our captain.

                  Granted there are always exceptions though this is mathmaticly the most fair suggestion I have heard or thought of.
                  Lights Out!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                    I don't want to change Captain designation procedures presently.

                    I'd be down for 1st, 4th for first Captain and 2nd, 3rd for second Captain.

                    Wanna try that?
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                      Solarity is basically proposing a snake draft system, which I think is a better system to use. That being said, most times even teams will never be possible due to the difference in player skill. Much like basketball, NS2 is weighted on the top level players and the rest don't really matter. (this assumes that everyone is working together). "Star" players win. If there are 5 of them on, one team is going to have an uphill battle. I don't really think that is problem, I usually have fun on TG win or lose. The only way to avoid this is to auction players off with salary cap system and that would be time consuming, boring, tedious, and require much more arguing.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                        Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
                        I don't want to change Captain designation procedures presently.

                        I'd be down for 1st, 4th for first Captain and 2nd, 3rd for second Captain.

                        Wanna try that?
                        That is the status quo, what about alternating every 2 after the first pick is done?

                        I just noticed an error in my suggestion as the captains are not picking from a pool of 16, but 14 that means it wont be equal as we are using two odd numbers (7) instead of (8). This would leave a delta of 1 instead of a 6, which is still better than the status quo. Also the last pick would go to team 2, ( the team that got 2nd and 3rd pick.)

                        Could you just have a random generator that says Capt X gets first pick?
                        Lights Out!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                          There is something to be said for solving many of these more mildly unbalanced concerns with attitude and outlook.

                          To cry's point, nothing feasible will be perfect.
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                            Oh. Right. That is status quo. Duh. Sorry.
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Captains Games team-picking change

                              Don't figure this out on the server. Keep this complexity in the forum.
                              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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