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  • PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

    http://www.pingplotter.com/freeware.html -- link at bottom of page: "Download PingPlotter Freeware now."

    If you've been having any problems at all with lag on the server, please install PingPlotter and run a trace to "tgns.tacticalgamer.com" when you're playing.

    Use the software to generate an image of the graph, showing any packet loss.

    Please share the image here.

    Let's try to figure out where this lag is happening.

    We need lots of data from several players to figure this out.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

    Of course, some players don't experience the lag.

    Also, some lag is due to the box itself, but I'm working on that in independent efforts, and that typically affects EVERYONE at the same time (most reports of lag don't follow that pattern and are, I suspect, /network/ related).
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

      Most of the time when there are those big hitches, all players will have it at once and immediately talk about it, ie. "dat lag guys, amirite?".

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

        Right. I really want more data from more players.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

          Please be aware that if you post the entire pingplotter image on this website, it will show your local IP addresses (the one on your modem AND the IP on your router). This should be blacked out or removed before uploading on this page. While I'm sure we can trust the vast majority of our TG friends, we can't ensure that everyone on the internets who can reach this page can be trusted, and giving out your local IP addresses is dangerous.

          Please keep in mind that I am connecting from the West Coast.

          I started this at 8:14 AM MT, capture is at 9:41 AM MT.





          Looks like consistent packet loss of 5% at row 13 of the PP list. Not constant, but certainly consistent. I'd say... every 90 pings or so, 5% on that server.

          The second chart is a display of latency across a 600 second chart. You can see a major spike there. If I had to assume where the culprit lies, I'd certainly say servers 11, 12, 13, & 14, as my ping to those servers has been a constant 100 to 200 throughout the entire test. It is safe to assume, as well, that those servers are responsible for the higher pings of late (of which I've gathered a few complaints via forums and in game chatter), as my ping is pretty consistent >100 until I hit that group of servers.

          In short, I blame Virginia.

          Mom
          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
          Forever Perplexed

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

            While running batch file:

            :loop
            tracert tgns.tacticalgamer.com
            goto loop

            Out of 10 tracerts, one came back 207 ms to server 69.31.10.86, server 12 in the PP chart, while all other servers averaged 75.

            Will continue to let batch file run to provide better ratio.

            Update:

            Also showing minor packet loss (5% out of every.... 200 pings) on 199.19.99.10, server 14 on the PP list, TG local (before transferring to TGNS server), I would assume.

            Second series of batch data returns another proof 200 ms ping to 69.31.10.86 at a 1 in 10 ratio of routes. *Has proved true at 3 out of 30 tracerts, a 1 in 10 ratio* This random high latency ranges from 200 to 300.

            Occasionally, via PP, the second half of the server group, starting at around server 7, will spike to 100+ for all pings to TGNS. These pings range from 100 to 250. Will happen, I'd guess, around every 250 pings or so.

            Returned ping of 328 to server 11 one time in 2 hour test period. Returned 343 on server 12 one time in 2 hour test period. In last 5 minutes, servers 12, 13, and 14 have all returned pings ranging from 200 to 400 at least once each. 10:34 AM MT to 10:39 AM MT.

            Conclusion of data in a 2 hour test window:

            Average ping: 85 (also my average in TGNS servers)
            Second half of server group showing medium interference packet loss at a rate of about 5% per 50 pings on any one of the 7 servers in this group.
            Second half of server group showing intermittent high pings, ranging from 100 to 500, at random intervals.
            Server 12 in the PP server list has a consistent ping of over 200 ms, proving true in 1 out of every 10 connection attempts. Server 12 is likely causing the majority of issues in the network.
            Since server 12 is late in the server list, and likely located near the TGNS server, it is likely that the majority of people connecting are going thru server 12 and having problems being consistent in the server. This is likely why we see pings range from 80 to 150, as documented by at least 3 regular players in the server.
            Originally posted by miragezors
            I vote no, I used to have 40 ping pretty constant on server....now I'm constantly between 100-160.
            Thread = http://www.tacticalgamer.com/natural...ng-kicker.html

            Another update: 3 out of 40 tracerts return 200 ms plus on server 12, final set of 10 tracerts returned no 200 ms ping on server 12, but a ping of 167 at local TGNS server was recorded. This means that in 40 traces, 1 in 10 times server 12 returned a 200+ ms ping (proven), and 1 in 40 times, TGNS local server returned a 167 ms ping.


            For clarity: left row of data is latency, bottom row of data is seconds.
            Mom
            Last edited by YerMom; 11-04-2013, 01:04 PM.
            Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
            Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

            You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
            Forever Perplexed

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

              ping.jpg

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                Jack,

                Where do you live?

                Mom
                Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                Forever Perplexed

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                  And what corner of the house do you sleep in?
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                    Lol...

                    I'm obviously not interested in that. I'm wondering if he didn't pass my server 12 because he's on the East Coast close enough to skip it.

                    I'd be very interested in seeing more data coming from mid to west US to see if server 12 causes the same problems for them as it does for me. Obviously, routing isn't going to be the same for someone that close to the server if the washington his PP returns is Washington, DC.

                    GET OFF ME WYZ! I'M WORKING FOR YOU HERE!

                    Just noticed your original post says, "While playing". I'll be sure to run another set of tests tonight while I'm playing to see if these data change, but I'm pretty confident they won't.

                    Mom
                    Last edited by YerMom; 11-04-2013, 02:27 PM.
                    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                    Forever Perplexed

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                      I'm in Dallas myself and I hit a latency wall when my packets start hitting Washington servers just like Jack.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                        You guys are routing different than I am, then. I never hit Washington servers. I went Denver, Dallas, Marietta GA, Ashburn VA.

                        My biggest issue is: http://www.plotip.com/ip/69.31.10.86

                        Your biggest issue, Jack, is: http://www.plotip.com/ip/4.69.148.145

                        All this means is that the Genuity ISP, assuming mirage is crossing the same ISP, is the problem for you guys. And my problem is CacheNetworks, Inc ISP. But, it's important to note that we are having two separate issues, yet seeing the same thing in the server. That is, I'm just seeing minor packet loss and high ping spikes across my trace, you are seeing major packet loss and stable pings across your trace, yet we both see hitching in the server and long "waiting for server" times... and it is assumed that all players in the server suffer from the same symptom at the same time, which also leads to ruling out the trace between user and server and pointing more towards server issue. This tells me that the problem is more related to the server's stability than it is the network between us and it.

                        This is all speaking with very limited server networking experience. I have experience troubleshooting wide networks like this, but not so much that I can say for sure that it is server side and not WAN side.

                        I'd say, at this time, based on my understanding of networking (which is limited at best) that the data we have in this thread provides evidence as to why the pings have been higher of late in the server, but does not provide any information relating to why the entire server hitches for all users at one single instance of time. If we were all tracing thru the same servers, it may provide some explanation to the hitching, but we're not, so it's close to impossible, I'd think, that we would experience the same thing at the same time while tracing different paths to the server unless the issue resides in the local network or the server itself.

                        Mom
                        Last edited by YerMom; 11-04-2013, 03:29 PM.
                        Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                        Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                        You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                        Forever Perplexed

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                          My guess would be for the hitching is possibly as the game has received more updating, the resources required to run the game have increased as well. I could be totally wrong in my theory, but usually when I have stuttering issues on my clients' servers it is usually a bad drive in the array, low disk space, or bottlenecking of allocated RAM/CPU power.

                          Is there any way we can check with the server provider to verify the consistency of those three hardware variables? Also, I'd be curious to see if we could increase the allocation of all 3 variables to verify it is not a server hardware problem.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                            Yes, certainly, and I regularly include provider collaboration in my troubleshooting. The box continues to have ample unused CPU, RAM, and disk storage. I've been asking to have that monitored all along.

                            Given that, I recently decided our performance problems must then be tied to one or both of two remaining things: disk /activity/ and network reliability.

                            I asked the provider recently to measure disk /activity/. He found it to be a bit excessive (my mods are fairly dependent on persisted player data), and we agreed I'd attack the code to make disk I/O more efficient. It's not 100% conclusive that the disk activity is the problem, but I've deployed this past weekend code which significantly lessen the reads/writes on the server disk (doesn't change what I'm capturing, or its size -- just how often I read/write it from/to disk). I measured during full games for hours last night, and the tickrate was some of the best I've seen in months (averaged 29+).

                            Meanwhile: some players were hitching. Some weren't. Typical.

                            Provider is measuring disk activity again tonight during prime time. If that activity continues to read as excessive, I'll be surprised, but I'll stay on that code until it's ruled out as a problem. *That* I can control/address.

                            I'm asking everyone to get me network data because I think I'm very close to having no other explanation except the network. I need as much data as possible, including folks running the same traces at different times and in different scenarios (playing, not playing, prime time, middle of the afternoon, etc, etc).

                            It's possible that the disk activity is /not/ the problem, hasn't been this whole time... and that would really leave *only* the network (which absolutely, alone, /could/ explain everything we've been experiencing).
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PingPlotter: help me find the lagging network

                              I'm seeing issues in the same place as Mom. Looks like it's at the peering point between your ISP and the wider Internet.

                              Target Name: tgns.tacticalgamer.com
                              IP: 199.19.99.67
                              Date/Time: 11/4/2013 8:04:53 PM to 11/4/2013 8:08:37 PM

                              Hop Min Max Avg Host Name / [IP]
                              2 6 24 9 [REDACTED]
                              3 8 25 11 [REDACTED]
                              4 8 31 12 be-35-ar01.needham.ma.boston.comcast.net [68.85.106.133]
                              5 36 58 39 he-2-6-0-0-cr01.newyork.ny.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.93.33]
                              6 41 66 45 he-4-11-0-0-cr01.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.13]
                              7 41 60 44 be-22-pe06.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.82.106]
                              8 42 63 46 as4436.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [173.167.57.142]
                              9 42 253 54 as11557.xe-4-0-4.ar1.iad1.us.nlayer.net [69.31.10.86]
                              10 43 235 52 edge01-iad-ge0.lionlink.net [67.208.163.154]
                              11 43 77 46 edgesw1-iad-ge50.lionlink.net [199.19.99.10]
                              12 43 58 46 [199.19.99.67]

                              Comment

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