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  • Captains and more choices?

    We had more than 16 people on the server for captains last night. It would be nice to have more than 16 people opt in to do captains. That way the captain can pick between a few more people and have some great games. We can still do 8 on 8. We kept trying to choose people who couldn't opt in last night. There are times when you invite people off the friends list to join and then there are no spots left.

    -Solarity
    Lights Out!

  • #2
    Re: Captains and more choices?

    The system as it is seems fine to me, I'd rather see those extra people spec or try to seed the other server. What you've proposed makes sense, but it would be even worse to be the "Fat Kid" in this scenario- I know I'd personally view it as a bad experience. Not only would you have to deal with being picked last in dodgeball, but you wouldn't get to play either!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Captains and more choices?

      Right. I'm content to exclude people from gameplay b/c they couldn't be bothered to execute a command that 16 other people were able to. I'm not content to exclude people from gameplay b/c they're not wanted. I'll not let players opt-in if we don't have a gameplay slot for them.

      The "PICK" designation on the scoreboard, once understood, makes it visually very clear who is and isn't pickable.
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: Captains and more choices?

        Yeah, I believe this is by design.

        The Captain's game mode is begun by people who want to play a Captain's game. It would be unfair to deny someone who has said they wanted to play from being able to play.
        The current system allows the first 16 people who opt in the ability to play in the Captain's game - You snooze, you lose.

        Last night was a bit of an exception, because the other server was down, so there literally was nowhere else for the overflow to go.
        Look at last Friday, it was both scheduled and announced ahead of time, with plenty of reminders as the night got underway, but with two servers it still took some time and effort to get it to fill up to 16 people.

        As for the issue of picking people who were not opted in, I am at a loss. Granted, micro's complaint was valid, in that there were too many people on the server, and the scoreboard names overlapped each other. The only way to fix this was to move us non-participators into spec, but spec filled up almost immediately because there were 7 of us.
        But with regard to picking the wrong people, I don't see how else we can fix this. I specifically asked Wyz to change the lower case 'c' to an all-caps "PICK" in front of everyone opted in to increase visibility. Everyone who has opted in now has their name offset with a longer tag, and heck, it even reads "PICK SOLARITY." If this is not working well, I don't think there's any way we can help, short of making all the opted in players' names glow and pulse in a variety of colors, and possibly strobe at a high enough rate to cause seizures. Maybe even have them randomly change size, and have sound effects when your cursor goes over them. Any other ideas for making sure Captains only pick those who have opted in?

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        • #5
          Re: Captains and more choices?

          Here's what I'll do if no one objects.

          If:

          1) Captains Mode is enabled

          2) You're a Captain

          3) You're in the Ready Room

          I'll hide from the scoreboard anyone who's not pickable. Sound good?

          This would mean you'd have to keep track, in your head, of who's been picked for each team... if that's important to you as you're picking.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Captains and more choices?

            To be clear: "PICK" would remain in front of their names. No plan to remove that (not now anyway -- maybe later, if we decide, based on use, that it's thoroughly unnecessary).
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Captains and more choices?

              If you mean you would effectively /also/ hide everyone who is already on a team (since they lose the PICK> prefix upon joining a team,) I would say this is not a great idea.
              There are occasions where miscommunication happens and a pick joins the wrong team and such. The people already on the teams have no way of telling where the joiner was actually supposed to go, and the Captains would not be able to see them join the wrong team, and will result in confusion later when they finish picking and join the teams.

              The best way is to hide only those unpickables in the ready room only. I don't know if you can get that specific, or if you can just force everyone who is unpickable into spec immediately.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Captains and more choices?

                I agree with Dark on hiding a name once joining a team; for both the reason he described above and also a Captain may need to view who is already picked to determine who their next pick will be.

                I might also make an improvement suggestion. I like that we have PICK next to available people, can we flesh out the c to say CAPTAIN so that people know who is who?

                I don't also know what you can do coding wise but I know the server has limitations on when members can join spectate; maybe when a captains vote reaches 75% opted in, spectate restrictions get turned off so people can jump from spec immediately and there is less confusion about who needs to opt into captains or can go one step further by auto assigning remaining people to spectate once a captains vote has been fulfilled.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Captains and more choices?

                  Cant have TOO many characters or names start getting cut off more significantly. Even with just A>, I cant have a twitch username (like twitch.tv/mmetully) or even mmetully[streaming]. Has to be mmetully [stream].


                  Don't swear at anyone.
                  Be respectful.
                  Your team comes first.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Captains and more choices?

                    Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
                    I'm content to exclude people from gameplay b/c they couldn't be bothered to execute a command that 16 other people were able to.
                    I generally agree except that it doesn't require 16 votes (the MOST I've ever seen required is 13).

                    [Feedback] Also, having played several captains games spread across 3-4 separate nights, I don't know if captains needs to be initiated before a match begins or not. (You could tell me but why don't I know?)


                    Don't swear at anyone.
                    Be respectful.
                    Your team comes first.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Captains and more choices?

                      Double-post error report: 'Quote replying' and pressing 'quick reply' prompts the user that this action will move the user from the current page (that's okay right? *clicks okay*)
                      Last edited by mmetully; 11-05-2013, 04:04 PM. Reason: Double Post Error


                      Don't swear at anyone.
                      Be respectful.
                      Your team comes first.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Captains and more choices?

                        Originally posted by mmetully View Post
                        I generally agree except that it doesn't require 16 votes (the MOST I've ever seen required is 13).

                        [Feedback] Also, having played several captains games spread across 3-4 separate nights, I don't know if captains needs to be initiated before a match begins or not. (You could tell me but why don't I know?)
                        If only 13 opt in for captains only those 13 will be able to join a team (be picked) once captains is initiated. I have also seen it reach 16 votes required when there were 20+ people in the server waiting in RR (not sure if this has changed in the last 2-3 weeks).

                        The captains vote can pass during a live pub round, it does not have to start before a match begins.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Captains and more choices?

                          Originally posted by miragezors View Post
                          [snip]
                          I might also make an improvement suggestion. I like that we have PICK next to available people, can we flesh out the c to say CAPTAIN so that people know who is who?
                          [snip]
                          I can probably answer this, since I was the one who came up with, and then went ahead and ruled out, this idea when I came up with the PICK prefixing.

                          There are 2 major reasons we ruled this out:
                          1) Upon enabling a Captain's game, the (first two?) people who chose to become Captains will be the Captains. They will, or should, know who they are. The rest of the server does not necessarily need such a label either, because anyone paying attention will see the text that tells everyone who the two captains are upon initializing Captain's mode. It's debatable here whether or not having a longer tag will make it apparent to one Captain that the other is also a Captain.

                          2) More importantly, lengthening the prefix of the Captain will actually go somewhat counter to the idea behind prefixing everyone else with PICK>. My idea behind going with PICK is that it's still somewhat short, and immediately lets people know what they are, as opposed to the previous method of having to distinguish between a capital and a lowercase C. Furthermore, every other prefix in use is a single letter. The goal of using PICK is to increase the visibility of valid choices for a team. PICK, being longer than the other tags, allows captains to attempt to automatically ignore every person who has a shorter tag. Increasing the length of the Captain's prefix from the current C to CAPT or CAPTAIN would go counter to this because then you have another tag that is of similar, or longer length, and would then require the Captain's to spend some time analyzing the word. We want to speed this process of picking teams, not create a scenario where the Captains have to do even more analysis of the ready room.

                          The example:
                          PICK> Retraced
                          PICK> Solarity
                          C> aeroripper
                          PICK> denalb
                          C> Wyzcrak
                          P> Wewt
                          PICK> miragezors
                          PICK> Kage
                          A> DarkScythe
                          PICK> Kage
                          PICK> Kalost
                          PICK> Thane
                          Compare against:
                          PICK> Retraced
                          PICK> Solarity
                          CAPT> aeroripper
                          PICK> denalb
                          CAPT> Wyzcrak
                          P> Wewt
                          PICK> miragezors
                          PICK> Kage
                          A> DarkScythe
                          PICK> Kage
                          PICK> Kalost
                          PICK> Thane
                          or
                          PICK> Retraced
                          PICK> Solarity
                          CAPTAIN> aeroripper
                          PICK> denalb
                          CAPTAIN> Wyzcrak
                          P> Wewt
                          PICK> miragezors
                          PICK> Kage
                          A> DarkScythe
                          PICK> Kage
                          PICK> Kalost
                          PICK> Thane
                          Personally, I feel having everyone else retain their "short tags" makes the available players for picking stand out the most.

                          Originally posted by mmetully View Post
                          I generally agree except that it doesn't require 16 votes (the MOST I've ever seen required is 13).

                          [Feedback] Also, having played several captains games spread across 3-4 separate nights, I don't know if captains needs to be initiated before a match begins or not. (You could tell me but why don't I know?)
                          You may enable Captain's mode at any point, and upon successful passage, it immediately ends any current game in progress and dumps everyone into the readyroom, as I understand it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Captains and more choices?

                            Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
                            If only 13 opt in for captains only those 13 will be able to join a team (be picked) once captains is initiated.
                            Until more people opt in.

                            So if 3 specs all vote for captains currently I believe that as many as 4-8 active players will be at risk of being unable to opt in. Basically the same as getting booted from a slot.


                            Don't swear at anyone.
                            Be respectful.
                            Your team comes first.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Captains and more choices?

                              Originally posted by mmetully View Post
                              Until more people opt in.

                              So if 3 specs all vote for captains currently I believe that as many as 4-8 active players will be at risk of being unable to opt in. Basically the same as getting booted from a slot.
                              If 3 specs opt in, then only the last 3 players will be unable to opt in, assuming no one else joins.
                              The server is theoretically full at 16 players plus 3 specs, or 19 people on the server. There is currently an issue with people who are in the middle of connecting when a slot was free, and becomes filled during the connection attempt.

                              In either case, this should be as designed, because why didn't the 3 players "left out" opt in sooner? If you want to play, you need to be proactive about it.
                              On the other hand, not everyone who is already on a team may wish to actually play the captain's game.
                              If you attempt to "reserve" Captain's slots for people who are already on the server, you then block others from playing when one of those players does not wish to play, for any variety of reasons.

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