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  • Rule Clarification

    LANGUAGE : Free television rules apply, mostly
    The hell does this mean? Google doesn't help. I've been using strict no-cursing guidelines, but I arbitrarily switched to PG-13 rules after thinking more on this rule.

    Second question:
    I don't see f4ing in our rules.

    Ok so not a question, but it's something I've see others warned about and thus I've warned others about.


    Don't swear at anyone.
    Be respectful.
    Your team comes first.


  • #2
    Re: Rule Clarification

    Broadcast television. What comes over the air w/o your having to pay a subscription fee.

    It's a yardstick by which to measure not driving people away with language.

    TV limits language so as to not drive away ad viewers in their target demographic(s).

    We limit language so as to not drive away players in our target demographic(s).

    The language we're asking people to show moderation or prohibition toward isn't generally what you hear freely on broadcast television.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Rule Clarification

      Good call on F4. I've amended this to include its mention:

      http://www.tacticalgamer.com/natural...es-server.html
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      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Rule Clarification

        I get what the broadcast television restriction generally means, but it's an unclear rule because I honestly have no idea what broadcast rules are. A link or a rewording are nescessary. (even if you explain it to me, you had to explain it to me so the rule isn't complete)

        PG13 on the other hand is really really easy to look up. It basically means don't swear too much and never use it targeting another person.


        Don't swear at anyone.
        Be respectful.
        Your team comes first.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Rule Clarification

          "Respect" is incomplete.

          "Communication" is incomplete.

          "Team comes first" is incomplete.

          etc, etc

          Incomplete and incomprehensible needn't be synonymous.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Rule Clarification

            I don't understand how your response relates.

            What is incomplete or incomprehensible?


            Don't swear at anyone.
            Be respectful.
            Your team comes first.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rule Clarification

              The rules are left intentionally incomplete. I.E., no clear line in the sand. Yet the rules are comprehensible.

              Don't use language that would inhibit or harm others. In the end, Wyz values (I think) the players ability to discern discretion. When it's valuable to sacrifice for the team. What's important to communicate to your teammates. How to respect other players. And when it's appropriate to use more colorful words.

              My $.02

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              • #8
                Re: Rule Clarification

                Some of our rules are very objective. "Don't F4." - "Don't recycle."

                Most of our rules are very subjective. "Team comes first." - "Respect others."

                Most of our rules are arguably incomplete. They don't explicitly define all of the possible details in the sundry possible scenarios.

                Discussion among players when there's a disagreement (and, failing that, Guardians/admins making real-time decisions/judgments) work through the details.

                Short of lots and lots of players expressing confusion, keeping the rules high-level makes things much easier for all reasonable parties involved.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Rule Clarification

                  Totally. I understand that. I've been enforcing basically based on what I've seen enforced by admins, so the rules as posted are... not practically necessary.

                  Going through the rules for the third time since I've been on the server however, I just don't understand what "Free television rules" means. After reading the rules, I don't know what is acceptable to say. Can I swear? Free broadcast doesn't have rules against bigotry such as use of gay, and that's very clearly important here (which I'm glad for).

                  There's ambiguous because rule nitpicking isn't what this is about, and there's confusing. I am confused. This rule confuses me.


                  Don't swear at anyone.
                  Be respectful.
                  Your team comes first.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rule Clarification

                    Interim note, as the conversation continues: please don't enforce a rule you're confused about.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Rule Clarification

                      I shouldn't overgeneralize, but think of the subjective rules as less of a line-item contract and more of a brochure. The subjective ones aren't to be reviewed with a microscope, but rather to let folks know what generally to expect. More than anything, it's to let players new to the server and fatigued by unchecked language elsewhere know that we enforce language here.

                      TG has used the same rule wording ("free television") in the past, when hosting other games (including NS1, to a degree) to represent a /blacklist/ of words that leadership would never actually define (and yet would prohibit). We've taken things a step further than not /defining/ words: we simply /tolerate/ more words, but we're as intolerant as ever when it comes to excess and disrespect.

                      The connotation of this language rule is that we /do/ have guidelines. It's not a free-for-all. Much like free television, cursing will be tolerated in context. Some words are allowed. Some aren't. Like television, which words are and aren't allowed on the server will vary based on who's present and the situation at hand (see: moderation and respect). Like television, you're only really going to learn what's allowed by immersing yourself. If enough viewers/players object to what's being tolerated, they /can/ change what's tolerated. After all, TGNS administration is and always has been just slightly less bureaucratic than the FCC.

                      Beyond that, players just have to learn the details by spending time on the server, and anyone can use the Contact an Admin forum to discuss any specific incidents/scenarios they want education/action about.

                      We've gotten along just fine disallowing F4ing despite it missing from the rules. I added it just now to give enforcers something to point to. F4ing is an objective thing, so it's easy to understand at face value and enforce.

                      Language is remarkably subjective, so it's harder to understand at face value, harder still to capture in a rule, and arguably one of the more contentious expectations to manage. So, we don't put too much effort into the written rule, but we make brief mention of it so that we have something to point to when we're enforcing.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rule Clarification

                        If you pointed me at that I'd still say 'I don't know what that means'

                        *edit* I mean I and any reasonable player would go 'okay, admin told me so' at this point. But I would be confused. Just like when a cop pulls me over for jay walking and I had no idea what constitutes jay walking, so I look it up. There's nothing to look up here. I tried to look up public broadcasting, rules and regulations, ratings (clearly this gave me something way unrelated).

                        I don't want some specific rules for talking, I just want something that makes sense in and of itself without referencing something else. If I can't talk you into that... then I'll just carry on. I'm not raising this for my benefit. I get the rule because I didn't learn it from the post about rules. I learned it from watching mirage interact with players.
                        Last edited by mmetully; 11-18-2013, 06:05 PM.


                        Don't swear at anyone.
                        Be respectful.
                        Your team comes first.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rule Clarification

                          What Tully is referring to, I believe, is that the majority of people do not watch broadcast TV, and therefore have no idea what language is acceptable and is not. Or, at least, the risk of this conclusion is there.

                          To be clear and without specifying, Tully, according the rules, there are only two words that we should allow... and those two are ones you will see in this forum. Anything beyond that is technically against the rules.

                          With that being said, the majority of Admin in the server allow what I would call Cable TV Language. Where, if you watch The Walking Dead, you will see the S bomb dropped on occasion, and anything "below" that. We should not, under any circumstances, allow the use of F-bombs, but, imho, it is up to the admin at hand to decide if it is strictly enforced or loosely enforced. I tend to try to be understanding... we've all had that moment that we die and go, "UGH RAGE BOMB" on the mic... I do it myself, and I'm trying to refrain from that. So, I'll give people 1 and a warning. But anything beyond that, and especially people that are MF this and F that... I do not tolerate.

                          And, now that I notice that you said you understand everything that I've said here before I said it... I'll just add that I mostly agree that the rule falls easily into the realm of ignorance for a lot of people.

                          Mom
                          Last edited by YerMom; 11-18-2013, 06:35 PM. Reason: I should read the entire posts above... obviously...
                          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                          Forever Perplexed

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                          • #14
                            Re: Rule Clarification

                            I don't think any community's language rules has ever been a specific blacklist of words or such.
                            At best, they could ban the F word, and common racial slurs, or they can outright ban everything and be "clean language only."
                            Everything else that lies somewhere in between is usually up to the community present at the time to use common sense.

                            I don't know about the differences with "Free broadcast TV" and others, but my previous communities have generally accepted a PG-13 language rule, which is a pretty good compromise.
                            Personally, I hold no tolerance for racial slurs, but for anything else, I'll usually let an outburst slide if it was made in the heat of the moment (getting blocked as an Onos, etc.)
                            If it gets repeated, they get warned before more drastic action, but as I've said before, I very rarely need to go that far.
                            If such comments were directed /maliciously/ at someone, they would get the one warning before removal.

                            I'm fairly certain most people are aware of language they should use around kids, and a simple reminder that some people have their kids nearby usually does the trick.
                            I don't see what there is to get confused over.. it's mostly common sense. The alternative is a strict blacklist/word filter, which gets unwieldy very quickly.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Rule Clarification

                              I'm looking for something relatable like that Dark. 'Keep the language mild, people have children at home' could be the actual rule.

                              It is more relatable. I'm almost 30 and to me 'Cable Television' and 'Free broadcasting' don't mean anything to me. TV is my wife's activity.


                              Don't swear at anyone.
                              Be respectful.
                              Your team comes first.

                              Comment

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