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  • Captains vote time restriction

    Captains votes now:

    ) can't be started in the first minute or so of a map.

    ) only last for one minute (full admins can extend -- meant for Captains Night)

    ) can only be initiated once per map

    The design here is to speed things along. Vote or don't, but know that in about a minute, we'll either be picking teams or balancing.

    Please provide feedback and report defects.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: Captains vote time restriction

    Sounds like a good idea. Could be bring back the C> symbol in the ready room, for everybody? It's tricky to know who has opted in and who hasn't now.

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    • #3
      Re: Captains vote time restriction

      Originally posted by BeigeAlert View Post
      Sounds like a good idea. Could be bring back the C> symbol in the ready room, for everybody? It's tricky to know who has opted in and who hasn't now.
      Currently, Captains can filter their scoreboards to only players who have opted in.
      Are you suggesting that the C's be added dynamically as people vote -- before the vote has successfully passed?

      I don't see the benefit of this, though. If those players wanted to play, they would vote. Having a list like this only serves to spur on those players who want to play hone in on those who have not voted for one reason or another. There's already a counter (albeit somewhat inaccurate at times) to let everyone know the general status of the vote, and it's usually a pretty big deal made about it when a vote goes underway, so it's not like people won't know about it and need a reminder.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Captains vote time restriction

        One concern I've had since Captains came along is the idea that you have to opt in to play. I think that the timer has helped to remove some of this, but I haven't been in an overflowing game during a Capt vote. I'm wondering if we could change the process slightly to opt in everyone if Captains mode is enabled.

        I don't think not voting for captains should be the same thing as opting out of playing. I'd much rather have the chance to play if the majority is inclined to play than lose an hour because I didn't opt in before the mode started.



        Mom
        Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
        Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

        You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
        Forever Perplexed

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Captains vote time restriction

          I don't know which to automatically opt in when 20 players are on the server.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Captains vote time restriction

            There was a small discussion in the server yesterday about maybe increasing the time limit from 60 seconds to 90 seconds. This discussion was started because there have been a few "12/12 want captains - 1/2 will captain" vote scenarios where someone would have probably eventually stepped up and been the other captain had the vote not expired.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Captains vote time restriction

              If they actually wanted to be a Captain, they would have voted just as quickly as everyone else.

              The timer ensures that those who want to play normal games have that option.

              Folks genuinely wanting to play (or be a Captain) /will/ miss the opportunity to vote due to the timer, but those times will be rare, and they'll get more and more rare as regulars learn to take that one-minute countdown seriously.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Captains vote time restriction

                I know I have only been on the server a short while but one thing I notice is these votes will start up fairly quickly and after a map change some people computers are slow to load so they get in late. I think that is causing some of the votes to fail. just my $.02.

                Love the server and having a great time playing. Last nights Refinery match was one for the ages.
                NZXT Phantom 820 | Antec 1200w PS |Intel Core i7 3770K @4.4
                Corsair H110 liquid cooler|ASUS Sabertooth Z77 | 2 X EVGA GTX 680 4GB SLI
                GSkill RipjawsX DDR3 2133GHz - 8GBx2 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD

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                • #9
                  Re: Captains vote time restriction

                  Don't know why that double posted, I only clicked once...
                  NZXT Phantom 820 | Antec 1200w PS |Intel Core i7 3770K @4.4
                  Corsair H110 liquid cooler|ASUS Sabertooth Z77 | 2 X EVGA GTX 680 4GB SLI
                  GSkill RipjawsX DDR3 2133GHz - 8GBx2 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Captains vote time restriction

                    nods. I will continue to tweak the post-mapchange moment at which a vote is allowed to start.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Captains vote time restriction

                      Wyz... what I mean is to just opt EVERYONE in once the captains mode has started so as to stem the feeling of "I have to opt in or I can't play" DUE to the server being overflowing.

                      So, you're guy #20 in the server. Captains vote is running. It takes... 14 people for the vote to succeed. You don't really want to play captains, but the vote is getting closer and closer to ending. You get the feeling of "crap, I may not be able to opt in if I don't now" and opt in just to save your slot. This feeling is due to the message "there are already X people opted in for captains, you can spectate, etc".

                      Does that make sense?

                      If we just opt everyone in the server in once the mod goes active, then the captains can just choose from the pot till teams are 8 v 8 and whoever is left over spectates.

                      ^ an effort to conserve the right to not want to vote for captains. Opting in should not be the same thing as voting, imho. I should be able to say, "I'll play if you guys want to, but I don't really want to." This is the easiest fix I can see for that.

                      Mom
                      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                      Forever Perplexed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Captains vote time restriction

                        I've not seen compelling evidence that opted-in folks have done so under duress.

                        I'll not design a system that has two Captains collectively telling a third opted-in player he can't play. Fat kid is fine and all, but those who can't play will be told so by the server ("you can't opt-in; too may already opted in"), not by another player ("you're not worth picking at all"). These games aren't competitive, per se, and the sting of telling everyone you want to play and then being "actively" told you're not wanted would do more harm than good.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Captains vote time restriction

                          The problem with that is that it then creates the awkward social situation of someone clearly wanting to play, is happy they were auto-opted in, then passed over during the selection process because they were viewed as the fat kid(s.) I see it as a better situation to be locked out due to the code and your timing of opting in, rather than because the Captains think you're terrible. As well, you run back into the issue of "Well, is this guy really playing? He seems AFK" when the entire point is to speed things up, and we even implemented a scoreboard filtering system to facilitate this process.

                          I think the current system is OK, except maybe pushing the limit on when to begin the vote at around 90-120 seconds (to account for the REALLY slow loaders; like, slower than Roland. :P )
                          As well, maybe since it's now timed to a strict one minute, when the first person votes, a notification can go off that a Captain's vote is beginning, and will start the timer in 5 or 10 seconds? Though for the latter suggestion, I fail to see how this would be any different from simply extending the vote timer 5 to 10 seconds.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Captains vote time restriction

                            I can't say that I disagree. I see the logic behind the "fat kid" statements, but I can't say that I've ever been concerned with it myself. I can't even go so far as to say that I know anyone who would care. But, that said, I don't know everyone's personal feelings on the matter.

                            I am, however, more concerned with being forced to do something that I may or may not want to do. For me, and likely many others, it's a matter of time. I don't have a lot of time, and I know several of us who are the same way. Those lucky enough to be on the East Coast get home early enough to be able to play when they want to, for as long as they want to... so it can't make a lot of difference. But, I'm not so lucky. I get in at 8 PM my time, which is around 11 Central (where most everyone seems to be). By that time, the game is already seeing the early stages of dying. I'm lucky to see 3 or 4 full games before it's dead.

                            My problem is that during that time, if someone casts a captains vote then in the next minute I'm faced with an option. I have the option to opt in to something that I may or may not want to do, or opt out of the next minimum 30 minutes. God forbid it's the maximum and the game runs for an hour and a half. Sure, it's great to spectate, but I think we all come to play, with the exception of Dark.

                            The part in this process that I do not like is that if I do not opt in before X amount of people do opt in, I'm SOL on the next 2 rounds, possibly upwards of 3 hours if they are maximum game time (2 rounds at an hour and a half). It is my opinion that any regular who plays often enough with us is going to feel this at one point.

                            Again, and not to support any "fat kid" moments, if the above doesn't work, I think it's valid to give some consideration to the person who may not want to play captains, but has no choice at a certain moment because if they do not opt in, they may well be losing the next hour or two in NS2 (which may be the only hour or two they have for the day). You're right, it's not the most pressing issue we have, but it's easy for a new person to see it this way. I can speak from both experience, and share the words of a friend who just started here. It's easy for a new person to see this one instance as a huge deterrant to playing at TGNS.

                            At this point, I'll leave it as food for thought, and close my end of the discussion.

                            Mom
                            Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                            Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                            You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                            Forever Perplexed

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Captains vote time restriction

                              Well the two issues I see with auto-opting people into captains is that you have people that genuinely don't want to play or necessarily have the time to play a full captains game. While common logic may dictate you theoretically have the 16 people to play a captains match, the voluntary option of manually opting into captains indeed allows a true verification of meeting those requirements over the pure assumption you meet them.

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