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Can we take off friendly fire?

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  • Can we take off friendly fire?

    ...or at LEAST tweak the behavior a little bit? There's a few situations where friendly fire either doesn't make sense, or is detrimental to the experience. For instance, there's a skulk chewing on an rt, I'm trying to shoot at it through the rt as I approach... but can't tell if I'm hitting it or not. Oh yes, the crosshair is pulsing red with every shot... but am I hitting the rt, or the skulk? Another example, one of the functions of the flamethrower is to burn off bile bomb from structures and units... but when I do that, it just damages the buildings anyways, so what's the point really? Also, more often than not I find myself either biting or being bitten by a teammate when attacking something small like an observatory, and it gets very annoying... especially when you're already at low health and it kills you! (Got friendly-fire killed as a fade, by a fade earlier tonight :( )

    So my proposed changes are either.... remove it entirely...

    OR

    - Flamethrower doesn't cause friendly fire anymore, as it is supposed to be able to wash off bile and spores... and it's REALLY hard NOT to hit your own team with that unwieldy thing too!
    - Bites, swipes, and whatever other close-range attacks aliens have no longer do friendly fire damage. This is just silly... so I'll let The Simpsons illustrate it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fMyIPiJOjI&t=05s (Sorry about the terrible quality, couldn't find the clip anywhere else).
    - Friendly fire no longer registers a hit on the crosshair. It's just misleading when the crosshairs give hit indications when you aren't accomplishing anything.

  • #2
    Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

    - Friendly fire no longer registers a hit on the crosshair. It's just misleading when the crosshairs give hit indications when you aren't accomplishing anything. << this would be nice, but I am happy with FF as is

    I really like that skulks cant just wildly bite down rts and have to distribute themselves around pgs

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    • #3
      Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

      Another example, one of the functions of the flamethrower is to burn off bile bomb from structures and units... but when I do that, it just damages the buildings anyways
      - Flamethrower doesn't cause friendly fire anymore, as it is supposed to be able to wash off bile and spores... and it's REALLY hard NOT to hit your own team with that unwieldy thing too!
      Just for clarity, the flamethrower currently only destroys bile bomb while its in mid air (in ball form). You'll hear a specific sound when it happens. It also destroys all drifter ability clouds, spores and umbra while in the air with a noticeable orange smoke when successful.
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      • #4
        Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

        Would it be possible to prevent friendly fire from dealing a killing blow? I'd be ok with keeping it in as long as you can't do damage below a certain amount of HP, say for instance 10% of max HP. If that's not possible, i'd lean more toward removing it altogether. With both sides being able to heal each other back up to full health after a fight, being a man down because you accidentally did 10 damage to your buddy after the skulk did most of the work is annoying when a medpack and a weld would see him back in the fight.

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        • #5
          Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

          I don't think any of the TKs that have happened really changed the fate of the one who was TK'd (meaning the dude was about to die from that skulk even sneezing on him). I personally use the full HUD because I like having the on-hit damage counter to make informed chase or stay decisions so I don't really have the ambiguous hit-or-not issue when defending RTs. My .02 is that FF is fine the way it is, if anything the damage to structures could be further reduced I guess but as a whole it does minimal damage and usually the guy's fate who just got TK'd was already decided (since he's obviously between you and the skulk you wouldn't be saving him from that last bite regardless). I also don't sense too much TKing going on during a skulk feeding frenzy but I could see that being more of an annoyance than marine on marine FF. That being said I'm also completely impartial as to whether there is FF or not lol

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          • #6
            Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

            Originally posted by FARVA View Post
            I don't think any of the TKs that have happened really changed the fate of the one who was TK'd (meaning the dude was about to die from that skulk even sneezing on him). I personally use the full HUD because I like having the on-hit damage counter to make informed chase or stay decisions so I don't really have the ambiguous hit-or-not issue when defending RTs. My .02 is that FF is fine the way it is, if anything the damage to structures could be further reduced I guess but as a whole it does minimal damage and usually the guy's fate who just got TK'd was already decided (since he's obviously between you and the skulk you wouldn't be saving him from that last bite regardless). I also don't sense too much TKing going on during a skulk feeding frenzy but I could see that being more of an annoyance than marine on marine FF. That being said I'm also completely impartial as to whether there is FF or not lol
            It changed an entire battle last night for me. Two fades (one was me) and a skulk were grinding a phase gate. The phase went down, but I took a lot of fire just before it did from a shotgunner. I survived, and the phase went down... but a few extra swipes from the other fade took me down as well. Soon, marines took back everything and won the game. Not trying to be arrogant here, but if I had been a fade a bit longer, it would have probably been a much different match.

            I agree with Matrix, if we MUST have friendly fire (still a bit unsure of why it's a must though...) can we make it so it doesn't deliver kill shots?

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            • #7
              Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

              I have to admit I'm torn about Lerk spikes doing FF dmg. It makes it VERY hard for two Lerks to work together. If one is hit and run and one is spike, then it only takes one wrong move for the FF dmg of spikes to kill the Lerk who just got shot.

              Another point I'd like to make is that when we first introduced FF I was very afraid that it would unbalance the game in favor of the Aliens... but it seems that it has more of a tendancy to be the opposite of that. Aliens end up suffering more because that one swipe or bite in the wrong place just cost the team a ton of res... where Marines are VERY unlikely to actually kill a meaningful structure for the same amount of money.

              A good example of this is the AA. There is no way for one stray bullet to kill the AA and cost the Marines the: 10 it cost to build, 10 for mines, 20 for shotguns AND 30 for AA. Where it is very easy for one stray swipe to kill the Fade that cost the Aliens 50 (or so, and that's just P res, not to mention the investment in Fade upgrades) res to produce. It's skewed because Marines can recycle weapons.

              I do enjoy the realism and tactical adjustment that FF brings with it, but I would like to see a change... maybe it's no kill shots. Saying that my spikes don't do FF dmg takes away from the realism of it, and it also hurts the adjustment value. But, in turn, it hurts our teamwork, and I'm sure that is the opposite of the goal. I'd hate to see Lerks staying away from each other because of the FF... same for Fades, and especially Oni staying away from smaller dudes.

              Mom
              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
              Forever Perplexed

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              • #8
                Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                Originally posted by YerMom View Post
                I do enjoy the realism and tactical adjustment that FF brings with it
                I don't. Not attacking you Mom, but it's a silly notion that there is any realism to be had in a game that involves gorge tunnels; shifting alien structures; marines that jump "that" high; exos that are immune to whiplash; the idea that some engineer in the ns2 universe would create a tank that can shoot through walls, BUT only if it's an alien structure :P; the cuddly little gorgies pooping out many little orbs of puss just as big as themselves; and massive, jagged columns of bone that shoot out of the floor, regardless of how thin that floor is as long as it's covered in green crap; and a flamethrower whose flames have a sort of instantaneous travel time.

                I completely disagree that this game should have friendly fire in the first place. The only reasons I can think of to put it in are: 1) make it more realistic (see above :P ) 2) add in a penalty for having worse aim than an alcoholic in a a gas station bathroom, and 3) to make ns2 more like other shooters.

                Reason 2 isn't it, because as YerMom has said above, there's a HUGELY disparity between alien friendly fire and marine friendly fire, even though both are implemented the same, logically. The fact that alien attacks do more damage (but take more time) means that (tossing out numbers here) one skulk biting another is equal to one marine unloading say... 20 bullets into another. That's not a mistake at that point! That's the other marine being a jerk!

                Reason 3 I can't tolerate at all. I play ns2 because it is UNLIKE other shooters out there. It's a wonderful asymmetrically balanced game, whereas my experience from CoD back in the day was just a showcase of all the different "real" weapons they'd try to shoehorn in, along with an experience system that only served to give more veteran players an advantage other than experience and skill, and something to brag about. Not with NS2. With NS2, you've got 5 guns. No sights to screw around with, no decals, laser sights, silencers, camouflage bull****, or whatever other accessories the game developers decide to toss in. NS2 is about the GAME, not a fashion statement, not trying to simulate what a "real" soldier/specOps/guerilla/terrorist/whatever, no. It's a game where space marines shoot aliens, and aliens attack space marines, and we all have fun. It's not about what's the best gun you've unlocked, or what your kdr is, or how many dead bodies you've teabagged (I shouldn't have to put those words together in that order... thanks human race...), it's about learning to play the game better, working as a team, and having fun.

                Friendly fire isn't fun.

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                • #9
                  Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                  I'll be honest I was annoyed with it at first. I mean, this was only the second server I found that had it on for this game. That said, back in my CoD days (may they rest in torment), I always played Hardcore, which had FF. And when I played CS:S and NS1 here we had FF on ...it's kinda a TG thing. The one thing that tipped me over the edge was just this night when I played a string of games here and molded my head to the idea of FF.

                  Over time, my accuracy as marine actually became more accurate. Usually when I saw a skulk I would hold MOUSE1 and try to swipe my crosshair over them as frantically as possible until I ran out. Why not? If he was biting at my buddy I pretty much had impunity if not an obligation to do so. But once my bullets started to harm my buddy, then, then, I started to take aim and track the skulk's movements. I got better at scoring hits, even if I was alone and didn't have to worry about FF (although "better" still amounted to defeat sometimes).

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                  • #10
                    Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                    Originally posted by HairyNevus View Post
                    I'll be honest I was annoyed with it at first. I mean, this was only the second server I found that had it on for this game. That said, back in my CoD days (may they rest in torment), I always played Hardcore, which had FF. And when I played CS:S and NS1 here we had FF on ...it's kinda a TG thing. The one thing that tipped me over the edge was just this night when I played a string of games here and molded my head to the idea of FF.

                    Over time, my accuracy as marine actually became more accurate. Usually when I saw a skulk I would hold MOUSE1 and try to swipe my crosshair over them as frantically as possible until I ran out. Why not? If he was biting at my buddy I pretty much had impunity if not an obligation to do so. But once my bullets started to harm my buddy, then, then, I started to take aim and track the skulk's movements. I got better at scoring hits, even if I was alone and didn't have to worry about FF (although "better" still amounted to defeat sometimes).
                    Friendly fire or not, that bullet isn't going to hit a skulk if it's hitting your buddy. I can't say my accuracy has gone up at all due to the introduction of friendly fire.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                      FF has made my decision making better on this server and others. Bursting when I actually see a hit rather than spray and pray and then getting bit for using up too many bullets.

                      Likewise, it has increased alien teamwork as I have to be more aware of positioning and attacking from surrounding angles instead of one big wall of mashy teeth from one side (which will get wrecked with or without FF).

                      In general I have seen better engagements with FF on.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                        Originally posted by micr0c0sm View Post
                        FF has made my decision making better on this server and others. Bursting when I actually see a hit rather than spray and pray and then getting bit for using up too many bullets.

                        Likewise, it has increased alien teamwork as I have to be more aware of positioning and attacking from surrounding angles instead of one big wall of mashy teeth from one side (which will get wrecked with or without FF).

                        In general I have seen better engagements with FF on.
                        I agree. People space out more, try not to block shots more, and generally just work better together. The shots that were hitting your friendly before weren't getting to the skulk anyways, this way there's just a better feedback loop to make you stop wasting ammo.

                        I'd prefer to not have FF on buildings, and maybe scale it back a little on aliens (especially for the projectile attacks), but otherwise it's good. I don't like phasing through a gate, spinning around, trying to shoot the skulk, and knowing that half my bullets are actually helping to take down the gate. I don't think that adds anything to the game.
                        remi.D

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                        • #13
                          Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                          I vote to keep FF on.
                          Kalost_tpf/twitch.tv

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                          • #14
                            Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                            I like FF, but I can understand why people wouldn't like it. Whatever the people want is the way to go.
                            -- P> Singularity

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                            • #15
                              Re: Can we take off friendly fire?

                              I'd prefer it on as well, for the most recent reasons listed. I definitely wouldn't mind if buildings were exempt from FF though.

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