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Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

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  • Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

    Last night raised some discussion on whether it is better to destroy a cyst before removing a harvester, or to go for the harvester first.

    What are some pros and cons for either tactic?

    Consider cases where the marine successfully takes down the harvester, and the case where the marine is killed. Consider alerting the aliens to your presence. Consider the time taken before the harvester is killed. Consider the time it takes to drop/rebuild a new harvester.
    -- P> Singularity

  • #2
    Re: cyst first or last?

    When not to Kill Cysts:
    If your objective is to get as close to an area as possable to say drop a Phase gate to kill a hive or setup a front, then you dont touch any building or cysts on the way, or you will alert your location...

    It does not matter that your building take damaged as you will have welders to fix them when your grouped. Once setup and ready strike, take out the objective then remove the cyst chain.

    When to kill Cysts:
    If your in an area to distroy buildings, then take out any connecting cysts as soon as you can so alien buldings will start to die and so the alien commander cannot drop anything in the area.

    Also it help to send a rine away from the team to cut off cysts close to the hive, this hinders alien expansion and diverts attention from the main squad which can help with the above ideas

    (6..~)Z Z z z....

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    • #3
      Re: cyst first or last?

      If my objective is to secure an area then I'd probably wait to kill the cysts since its nice to sneak a force in and greet the first response aliens with a smattering if bullets.

      if I am going into an area just to bust up a harvester then it will depend on how heavily infested the area is. If there is just one cyst on the RT then I like to kill it first then start hitting the RT (since it will take the comm a while to re cyst). If the area is heavily infested/cysted then I'd just hit the RT first (since the comm can reinfest quickly) then when its down to like 20% kill the cyst and finish the job (assuming you don't have a lerk on you already). Also if I get multiple aliens responding to me hitting an RT and its obvious I am both going to die and not kill the RT then I usually refocus to kill the cyst in hopes that the khamm won't recyst fast enough or a buddy will come in shortly to finish the job and thus have an immature cyst to kill.

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      • #4
        Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

        This came up in a game last night. When killing an RT do you...

        1. Kill the cyst immediately, wait for the infest to recede and the RT to start being damaged before you start shooting the RT (alien com won't be notified until the RT takes damage)
        2. Kill the cyst, and then immediately start shooting the rt, killing any newly dropped cyst
        3. Bring cyst to 1hp, start shooting rt, kill cyst before you die

        Which of these is technically best?

        Personally I feel like if you have the time #1 would be best because the alien com then can't nutri-mist the RT/new cyst, or shift away the rt, and will likely drop another cyst or two while you're killing the RT which will cost them an additional bit of res.
        #2 still seems better than #3 because the additional damage the RT takes while you're shooting it due to no infestation will help take it down faster
        #3 has the advantage of preventing the khamm from dropping a new cyst for the cool down time, but a crag could be shifted in or nutri-mist could be triggered on the receding infestation. The only way this one really makes sense to me is if the khamm isn't paying attention and just doesn't notice the cyst has been killed (which is not a good general assumption in our server).
        remi.D

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        • #5
          Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

          # 2. Waiting for the infest to recede before you shoot it just means you'd be standing around idly for a decent amount of time- the majority of skulks on our server would catch you, unless you wasted even more time by finding a -perfect- hiding place.

          I've also noticed on the server that a few comms like to play 'whack a mole' with me on dropping new cysts while I'm working on the RT-- considering the tower costs 10 tres to drop in the first place, I'm more than happy to kill 5 more 1 tres cysts as I work on shooting the tower down, even if it stays alive in the end.

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          • #6
            Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

            Originally posted by Retraced View Post
            # 2. Waiting for the infest to recede before you shoot it just means you'd be standing around idly for a decent amount of time- the majority of skulks on our server would catch you, unless you wasted even more time by finding a -perfect- hiding place.

            I've also noticed on the server that a few comms like to play 'whack a mole' with me on dropping new cysts while I'm working on the RT-- considering the tower costs 10 tres to drop in the first place, I'm more than happy to kill 5 more 1 tres cysts as I work on shooting the tower down, even if it stays alive in the end.
            I also start shooting immediately after the cyst dies.

            And Retraced must love it when I'm alien comm because he will have a trio of cysts to kill before the receding starts, plus he gets to kill three newly dropped ones AND he gets to stand in that cool, cool, mist that I drop.

            Seriously though, when I'm alien comm it's like the marines notice and say "Hey, Roland's comm! Let's continuously go kill all the cysts and nodes unlike the last 4 rounds. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
            aka Roland tHTG

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            • #7
              Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

              I've merged this thread w/ the other of same subject from the tactics/mod forum.
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              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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              • #8
                Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

                #2

                When destroying a harvester, it's best to attack the cyst first, as you will never know the response time of the aliens. Cysts are usually 1 mag from your rifle. I like to hit the cyst at the RT and the one before it, then immediately start shooting the RT. I'm not worrying too much about my ammo, as I'll get attacked and most likely die when I have either reload my rifle or change to my rifle when using the hatchet. That amount of time usually causes you to die, so I'm inclined to hit the RT the hardest I can while I am there. The cyst chain takes longer to build the more in a series of new cysts there are, so if you kill two rather than just one, the RT is more likely to die. It don't take you too much longer anyways. Popping new cysts is a bonus, but I usually try to hit those with my remaining pistol rounds in a perfect world where I don't die killing the RT.

                Originally posted by bentring View Post
                "Hey, Roland's comm! Let's continuously go kill all the cysts and nodes unlike the last 4 rounds. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
                I can't count the number of times I've said that verbatim.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

                  Personally I like killing the cyst first, since when a cyst goes down most Khamms respond by just re-cysting rather than putting out the order to go to RT/Node it's under attack, at least until the node itself starts taking damage. Players on TG often also keep an eye on the map such that as soon as the node itself is under attack more likely than not there are aliens incoming. This question also in a sense applies to taking out power or node first as a marine but I think most experienced players would agree that unless other equipment is in the area it's better to go for the node due to the resource cost. On the original question though I like to use my axe on the cyst and then start shooting the RT since theoretically it's faster that way and the risk of getting discovered/hit in the time it takes to axe down a cyst is unlikely.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

                    I like to use my axe on the cyst
                    As a commander, I would hate to see that. A welder, fine. But I'd rather you spend the clip on the cyst and have me drop you an ammo pack so you can start hitting that RT as fast as possible if there is any chance of an alien happening upon you.

                    Or do you mean the axe kills the cyst faster?
                    remi.D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

                      My personal decision on axe vs. shooting depends entirely on the level of weapons upgrades.

                      At weapons zero, I will always axe down cysts and structures, since it will be faster than shooting.
                      I forget if weapons 1 evened it up or not, but certainly by weapons 2, I will always opt to shoot.

                      I believe the welder is slower at killing harvesters than the axe, but possibly faster at killing cysts?

                      I also tend to go for the cyst first, as there's no guarantee I'll remember, or be able to kill the cyst when aliens arrive.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

                        Yes, welder is faster on cysts because it adds fire damage. I'm not sure how it compares to shooting the cysts.
                        remi.D

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                        • #13
                          Re: Killing RTs and their Cyst chains

                          Oh, practical result of this discussion for me in-game is that my strategy tends to look more like:

                          1. Shoot down cyst
                          2. If I can, wait a little for the infestation to recede and be ready for the first skulk to respond
                          3. Shoot the harvester when I have peace to try to get it to the bleed out point as soon as possible. If there are aliens in the next room, patiently wait while the lack of infestation continues to harm the RT (rather than giving them an opening to attack while I'm reloading).
                          4. Stop shooting when it gets to the bleed out level and just defend or move on the next one down the chain killing a cyst along the way so infestation won't be able to be reapplied.

                          In general this seems to work very well until the Lerks/Fades start defending nodes. I've also noticed that often killing the cyst and then moving to the next RT on the chain to attack that first does a lot more good because I'm effectively doing double damage to the RTs by keeping the cyst chain broken a bit further back (and the infestation will have receded to damage the first one by the time I get to the second which also draws the aliens to the wrong RT to defend) :D
                          remi.D

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