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  • #16
    Re: Grenade mod

    How hard would it be to implement carrying 3 grenades at a time or multiple different kinds? I always liked in Counterstrike that you could carry multiple kinds of grenades, but obviously there was a cost involved.

    What if we make the research 5 T-Res for grenades, allow cluster at research but pulse/nerve available at AA research, make them cost 5 P-Res, and you receive 3?

    What if we make a grenade variety pack purchase for 10 P-Res where you get 2 of each kind? This would be the only way you could have different kinds at once.

    Just thinking outside the box to make them more strategic.

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    • #17
      Re: Grenade mod

      Grenades are too powerful to be free and at a lower pres cost. I think the most balanced version of them is their vanilla behavior. A 10 tres cost for three types of grenades that your team can use to flush out vents, completely clear Gorge clog/hydra fortresses, toss at a res node to get an easy skulk kill, etc. is a good investment for the commander if that's what they find the Marines need.

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      • #18
        Re: Grenade mod

        Originally posted by BeigeAlert View Post
        I want to be able to buy a pack of 100 grenades, for 50 rez. :P

        But seriously though, I find grenades are most useful for killing RT-biting skulks. It's so frustrating to play that silly ring around the rosie game when the RT is just 2 bits away from death. Grenades are the solution! :D

        I would change the cost back to 3 from 2 as this has almost never been an issue for me, and I would make it a researched ability again... but maybe the AA is still needed for the advanced grenades? Nerve gas seems a little bit OP early game anyways, so I like this change.
        I really enjoyed our changes to grenades, and am betting something similar will wind up in vanilla. I agree trying to shoot a skulk hiding behind a structure is pretty obnoxious and I don't think very fun for either player. Cluster grenades seem very ineffective to me in general (I almost am never killed by them), and seem more for flushing aliens out of vents/behind structures than to do serious damage on their own. Since there is a res cost associated with them, and you lose them if you die, I think there is sufficient trade-offs to running out with them. I don't like the grenade through a phase gate, but I don't like that regardless of if they need to be researched or not. It's awkward to do as a marine due to the current mechanics of the grenades, and annoying as an alien.
        remi.D

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        • #19
          Re: Grenade mod

          Originally posted by Concussion1000 View Post
          I'll just say what everyone else is thinking:

          Exos should be free and researched at the beginning of the round. Please offer me a strong counterargument to this, because I have yet to find one.
          My counterargument is that then as comm I couldn't prevent my team from buying exos.
          aka Roland tHTG

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          • #20
            Re: Grenade mod

            Originally posted by miragezors View Post
            How hard would it be to implement carrying 3 grenades at a time or multiple different kinds? I always liked in Counterstrike that you could carry multiple kinds of grenades, but obviously there was a cost involved.
            Changing carrying capacity is a simple value change. Not sure how to edit the code to do the latter.

            What if we make the research 5 T-Res for grenades, allow cluster at research but pulse/nerve available at AA research, make them cost 5 P-Res, and you receive 3?
            It's easy enough to do, but 5 res is too much.

            What if we make a grenade variety pack purchase for 10 P-Res where you get 2 of each kind? This would be the only way you could have different kinds at once.

            Just thinking outside the box to make them more strategic.
            Wouldn't really work, that's a big investment for something you might not even be able to use in combat, much less not be pickupable by other players on death.

            My personal feelings on the mod/vanilla in general:

            1) Grenades are good at 2 res. More frequent use and doesn't sap your pres bank as fast as having them at 3 res.

            2) I like having them back to research due to the limiting nature of having the AA unlock the advanced grenades. The downside is now comms are back to getting them late game due to other concerns. Although, since we had this mod installed for so long I hear players asking for nade research more commonly now.

            3) Cluster grenades are superb at taking out clog/hydra dens. They're not so great at killing a skulk behind an RT, and of marginal use when throwing them in vents. It's easy enough to tweak their explosion radius to be much more focused, but negates the usefulness of its anti-gorge role. The single explosive grenades that were so ubiquitous to RT defense/vent engagements from NS1 is gone.

            I could change it so players spawn with 2 cluster grenades on every respawn, and I think I could figure out how to do it once grenades are researched. I could also tweak the focused effect of cluster grenades to make them better at killing skulks behind RTs. That would bring them back in line with how they were used in NS1. I might play around with that a bit. In the meantime, I do appreciate the feedback.
            Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
            Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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            • #21
              Re: Grenade mod

              Originally posted by aeroripper View Post
              3) Cluster grenades are superb at taking out clog/hydra dens. They're not so great at killing a skulk behind an RT, and of marginal use when throwing them in vents. It's easy enough to tweak their explosion radius to be much more focused, but negates the usefulness of its anti-gorge role. The single explosive grenades that were so ubiquitous to RT defense/vent engagements from NS1 is gone.

              I could change it so players spawn with 2 cluster grenades on every respawn, and I think I could figure out how to do it once grenades are researched. I could also tweak the focused effect of cluster grenades to make them better at killing skulks behind RTs. That would bring them back in line with how they were used in NS1. I might play around with that a bit. In the meantime, I do appreciate the feedback.
              This is the main reason I like the mod. I think the hand grenades added something very good to NS1, and I want to see that return in NS2. Having more grenade types is cool, but for me the minimum feature set should include the NS1 nade. The timing of the grenade firing when you throw is also very odd. It feels like there is a delay or something beyond when I would have expected it to be thrown. Not sure if this is animation or timing or really bad network latency or what.
              remi.D

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              • #22
                Re: Grenade mod

                Originally posted by aeroripper View Post
                ... since we had this mod installed for so long I hear players asking for nade research more commonly now.
                Ah, Aero's original plan has been revealed!

                I don't like the grenade res change to 2 (for the same reasons that you enjoy it), but it's not a huge deal. I'd have pretty strong feelings against playing with a mod that gave 2 free cluster grenades on spawn though, I still really think that we should stay away from making changes that major. As we saw with the skulk speed change around this time last year, the slightest change to balance (especially involving early gameplay-- skulks and vanilla marines) can make a massive difference... and not necessarily in the way that you'd like it to.

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                • #23
                  Re: Grenade mod

                  This is the main reason I like the mod. I think the hand grenades added something very good to NS1, and I want to see that return in NS2. Having more grenade types is cool, but for me the minimum feature set should include the NS1 nade. The timing of the grenade firing when you throw is also very odd. It feels like there is a delay or something beyond when I would have expected it to be thrown. Not sure if this is animation or timing or really bad network latency or what.
                  They current modifier is set to 1.2s for the grenade lifetime after throwing. I shortened it to .8 to test and the skulk didn't have time to get really get away. It was more effective at killing skulks behind RTs, but unfortunately marines don't usually pickup a grenade when they respond to a RT under attack anyways. In NS1 you always had them with you which explained the consistent use.

                  Originally posted by Retraced View Post
                  Ah, Aero's original plan has been revealed!

                  I don't like the grenade res change to 2 (for the same reasons that you enjoy it), but it's not a huge deal. I'd have pretty strong feelings against playing with a mod that gave 2 free cluster grenades on spawn though, I still really think that we should stay away from making changes that major. As we saw with the skulk speed change around this time last year, the slightest change to balance (especially involving early gameplay-- skulks and vanilla marines) can make a massive difference... and not necessarily in the way that you'd like it to.
                  Agreed. I'll tinker with it a bit more but not planning on adding it back. Probably going to do a new cosmetic mod. Maybe some ARCs with spinning chrome rims.
                  Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                  Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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                  • #24
                    Re: Grenade mod

                    I actually love the interplay of engagement when I'm a skulk biting a node, forcing the marine to get a good angle, and figuring out if there is a time to attack or not.

                    Tense moments are good! It should be an investment to be an instant-flush out for any marine to save a node.

                    I like vanilla better, and I definitely want comms to research grenades more :)

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