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  • 1st person spectate

    Is this still broken? I don't mind 3rd person much, except that it doesn't show the player's health/armor and energy/ammo.

  • #2
    Re: 1st person spectate

    It's not 'broken' -- it's disabled via a mod currently.

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    • #3
      Re: 1st person spectate

      Oh so I can ask here what I've always wanted to, why is it disabled?
      Who you gonna call?

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      • #4
        Re: 1st person spectate

        From what I recall, it was causing server lag (or something similar). It might be something that needed to be fixed with the official game.
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        • #5
          Re: 1st person spectate

          Yup. From what I heard, spectating someone would give them the worse of your two respective pings. It sounds like the server must hold on to the oldest state needed for all specs and sim from there, or do something funky with when it sends out the network updates... Either way, it's an engine issue. I'm not sure if it's in the scope of what fsfod plans to or will be able to fix, as first person spectating is a very difficult problem to solve in general.
          remi.D

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          • #6
            Re: 1st person spectate

            But is this still the case? Somebody (don't remember who, I think it was a stranger) said that this was fixed way back for the NS2WC. Not sure if that's true or not.

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            • #7
              Re: 1st person spectate

              It definitely wasn't fixed for the WC, and afaik still isn't fixed. :(

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              • #8
                Re: 1st person spectate

                I'm not sure if it was fixed or not, but it should be trivial to test on a server not running the mod.

                The issue is not quite true 'lag' or latency issues as Aero and remi put it, but it is close.
                It is a perception of warping on the target, and it does indeed have to do with spectators with a high latency.
                When a spectator watches a particular player in first person, and for whatever reason has a really high ping (or the ping differential between spectator and target is high enough -- easiest way is to alt tab) the target being spectated appears to be "lagging" and it manifests as the target warping around as they move. It is almost as if they had the very high ping, but they don't, and the target does not feel it. It is only apparent to everyone else. In practice, this amounts to unfair accusations of players lagging, or having bad internet, or what have you. (This does happen quite often -- I don't have to name names.) It can also lead to an advantage for the target, as they are playing as normal, but are harder to hit. Finally, first person spectate (as far as I can recall being told) didn't quite update fast enough, and would occasionally lead to false reports of cheating.

                Don't get me wrong; I miss first person spectate as well, but there are quite a few drawbacks with its implementation, and it's unlikely to be fixed being that it's an engine problem.

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                • #9
                  Re: 1st person spectate

                  Originally posted by DarkScythe View Post
                  it's unlikely to be fixed being that it's an engine problem.
                  Well, it got slightly more likely with that announcement the other day about the community development, but still, yea I see what you're saying.

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                  • #10
                    Re: 1st person spectate

                    I've disabled this mod after determining that the following correlated with the mod running on the server:

                    ) Marines are not given voice alerts when structures are under attack

                    We've been w/o such alerts for... a while. They've returned tonight w/ only the 1st person spec mod disabled.

                    Anyone know how we should proceed getting this resolved so we can return the mod to the server?
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                    • #11
                      Re: 1st person spectate

                      Originally posted by BeigeAlert View Post
                      Well, it got slightly more likely with that announcement the other day about the community development, but still, yea I see what you're saying.
                      With the type of problem I suspect it to be (a really heavy architectural problem), I believe it would be unlikely that fsfod will attempt to tackle it.


                      Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
                      I've disabled this mod after determining that the following correlated with the mod running on the server:

                      ) Marines are not given voice alerts when structures are under attack

                      We've been w/o such alerts for... a while. They've returned tonight w/ only the 1st person spec mod disabled.

                      Anyone know how we should proceed getting this resolved so we can return the mod to the server?
                      Debug it and make our own. :)

                      edit: Actually, this was made by Mendasp. I can bring it up with him. If we can find the issue I'm sure he'd be happy to push a fix.
                      edit2: I've looked at the source for this mod and see nothing suspicious. Maybe we can test adding/removing it some more to make sure this is a valid repro?
                      remi.D

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                      • #12
                        Re: 1st person spectate

                        Originally posted by BeigeAlert View Post
                        Well, it got slightly more likely with that announcement the other day about the community development, but still, yea I see what you're saying.
                        Ironhorse mentioned that he's -hoping- for a fix 2 patches from now, so at least from his perspective it isn't unsolvable. I definitely agree with you though, 3rd person spec is a far cry from the insight you can gain from 1st person.

                        Since 1st person spec is back for now, it's worth noting that (as Dark hinted at earlier) what -you're- seeing from spectate isn't exactly what the actual player in question is doing. This is especially easy to see in the shotgun/Fade/anything regarding twitch aim... What we may see as poor hitreg (aiming off target but still getting a hit) was really a dead on shot from that player's perspective.

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                        • #13
                          Re: 1st person spectate

                          If anyone repros an entire long game without any structure alerts while this mod is disabled, please report here.
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 1st person spectate

                            I've not really noticed them being gone or being there, the verbal/sound cue that something is under attack is usually significantly after I've already seen it flashing on the map since I'm a map junkie, but it definitely can help commanding if you're in the middle of supporting an engagement and have the audio cue that something else is happening.

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                            • #15
                              Re: 1st person spectate

                              I did not notice any missed sound notifications from commanding last night. At least that i was aware of. I did however notice some of the players to look laggy (i guess i could only descrbie it as rubber banding) from the comm pov. I checked their ping and it appeared to be in an acceptable range. I dont know if its related.

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