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  • Community culture enforcement

    Forgive me if this isn't the right subforum for this. Tactics seemed out of place.

    I don't have the history to qualify this completely, I apologize, but it seems like over the last few months we've had a great deal of growth (I mostly notice this from the Primer signatures). This includes myself, mind you.

    I could be wrong, but I think we've steadily been losing some of the mature and less vitriolic nature of communication and "admining" with that growth. It's a good problem to be have, and I'm again not saying I'm not a part of this (I /have/ been trying to curb some of my typical internet responses, and people like Wyz are patient).

    This is really the problem, I think. I won't point any fingers at specific people, I don't think that will be productive, but lots of us that have become "guardians" have been more than a bit rough with our words. Criticism was (and often still is) one of the more interesting aspects of the community on the forums and the server. I'm referring not to the criticism, but the name-calling and belittling that have been on the rise.

    I'm not one to put forth a problem without some thoughts on solutions. Some aspects of this have been discussed elsewhere that I've seen, so I'm all for hearing why they won't work and alternatives:
    - Change "Guardians" in the scoreboard from an "A" to a "G" so there's a clear delineation for those of us that are new to know who's more qualified to weigh in on community culture issues.
    - I'd like to see less disparaging of commanders who are either new or doing something different than what ground team members would want. I've caught myself doing this on occasion, don't misunderstand this for blaming anyone.

    - On a personal note, I would love any thoughts on how to address a given individual if/when they are engaging in such vitriol. I've seen several members simply asking pointed questions (even of myself), and I'm trying to see how to work that into my own habits. What about when that gets further on? When and how does one lay down debate and go to "this conversation is unproductive, so we need to do X instead and agree to disagree" and maintain compliance with as little offense as possible?

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Community culture enforcement

    Our growth rate in the last several months doesn't seem too remarkable to me. Slow and steady, like normal. But maybe it has been faster than normal.

    But what you're observing sometimes happens regardless of growth rate, really.

    I very much /like/ the 'A' next to Guardians, as (they can provide the same remedies as full admins and) they're to be held to the same /standards/ as full admins. So, whether it's a Guardian or a full admin you're unhappy with:

    1) get off the server
    2) create a CAA thread with details
    3) full admins (only full NS2 admins and upper TG leadership can see CAA threads) will help the responsible party do better next time

    Regarding personal contact of folks, just talk to them like people, but later. Hit them with a PM in the forums or something. If they're so worked up, you're not likely to persuade them in realtime on the server. But, then, you might, if your target respects you enough.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Community culture enforcement

      I'm a "new" Guardian, but I try and keep on the downlow, the most I've really done is ask people to tone down the language, or tone up the respect.

      The other day I had to tell someone how the "FOLLOW ORDERS" rule works.

      There has been some confusion though, like if there are issues on the server, there needs to be an actual admin, instead of a guardian. I thought if a guardian was the only one present, they are an admin, for all intents?
      Who you gonna call?

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      • #4
        Re: Community culture enforcement

        I'm a "new" Guardian, but I try and keep on the downlow, the most I've really done is ask people to tone down the language, or tone up the respect.

        The other day I had to tell someone how the "FOLLOW ORDERS" rule works.

        There has been some confusion though, like if there are issues on the server, there needs to be an actual admin, instead of a guardian. In this case, there were multiple guardians and a random stranger wasn't following orders, and one of the guardians requested admin action. I thought if a guardian was the only one present, they are an admin, for all intents? So in this case, I could feel secure enforcing the rules and not stepping on toes? :p
        Who you gonna call?

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        • #5
          Re: Community culture enforcement

          That's correct.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Community culture enforcement

            Muhahaha the POWER! er, I mean. Sounds good!
            Who you gonna call?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Community culture enforcement

              Yes that's the point of the guardians really, to help enforce the community and server rules including teamwork and communication.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Community culture enforcement

                The same is true even when a full admin is in game. Do not be shy, guardians are our enforcers. We can and will course correct as necessary, but the whole concept of it is to empower our community to better itself.

                Similarly, there are almost always 2 guardians/admins per team. If you are one of them, and the other is in the command chair, consider taking on the burden so the com can focus on the game. I know Wyz's stance on this is that the current game isn't as important as enforcing the rules of our community across all the games and although I agree, with the number of guardians we have the com should rarely need to take attention from the game as long the other guardian is doing their job.

                Again, for all intents and purposes the admins and guardians are the same. So, if Wyz is in the chair and you are a gaurdian, speak up and handle the enforcement yourself. :)
                remi.D

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                • #9
                  Re: Community culture enforcement

                  Also correct. :)
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Community culture enforcement

                    A Guardian in our server is a position of expectation.

                    You cannot be a Guardian and keep a low profile. In fact, I think it should be a requirement that a Guardian be able to put modesty down at the door. You are the voice of our experience. I find the most difficult thing to be that moment when you need to speak up. What I have found myself doing is using comments that are not demanding, but simple responses to an outburst.

                    Last night a guy said that our team sucked and that's why we lost. My response was not "You can't do that here," or anything threatening. I said, "Well, that was unnecessary." He almost immediately toned down his comments.

                    Wyz, on the other hand, has a very methodical and intellectual response to things. You can hear the experience in his voice when he says something to someone misbehaving. When he speaks to someone in that tone, one of two things will happen. The person will say, "Oh, snap. This guy has been doing this for years," or, "Screw this guy. Who is he to talk to me that way." It seems to me to be sort of a give a guy enough rope to hang himself tactic. I've tried for a long time to accomplish this. I've realized that people do it in different ways.

                    My response of "That was unnecessary" and Wyz's response of experience are, in essence, the same thing. We just position ourselves differently in the same attack. We both want to see how said person will respond. Because, 9 times out of 10, the guy who thinks "Screw this guy" isn't cut out for TGNS.

                    Mom
                    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                    Forever Perplexed

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Community culture enforcement

                      One of the more important undercurrents (if not -the most- important) I try to offer when I'm talking to unknown players when they're out of line is a tone of 1) casualness and 2) respect. Depending on circumstance, that's either 1) not appropriate or 2) appropriate and I just suck in that moment and screw up one or both.

                      But I try to let the player know that I'm connecting with them first as a person, not as an authority figure (hell, they haven't even figured out which way is up yet, much less whether or not I'm an admin).

                      So often, I'll hear regulars (knowledgeable people with appropriate, timely intentions) butcher the /delivery/. The DELIVERY!!

                      Take one example (and don't turn this example into a debate, here, about language boundaries/whitelists/etc -- that's not the point):

                      "Joe, watch the language." (with a tone that says "Joe, we've been OVER this before." -- well, in fact, you've never seen Joe in your life, and you're sharing with Joe, through your inflection, the /frustration/ you've gathered over tiiiiiiiiime, with /other/ strangers, none of which was Joe's fault). Better: "Joe, we've got a language thing here." This tells Joe that WE are the anomaly. TGNS is the exception. Joe's not the exception! He's cussing on a game server! Par for the course. TGNS is the freak here. This immediately and implicitly expresses to Joe that he's absolved for past offenses, as he didn't know better. It's a far less adversarial communique. So, be firm, but be kind. Yes, if Joe insists on cussing to the dissatisfaction of the regulars, then remove him. But don't open your dialog with Joe with an inflection that suggests he should have known better. We have no MOTD by /design/ (because uninvested users don't READ). Calling it a "language thing" to Joe will give 85% of Joes all they need to fix their behavior.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Community culture enforcement

                        I've carried myself in STARK contrast to the following, but I hope it's reflected in most of what I do.



                        Another trait I commonly see in regulars trying to enforce the rules: They throw a LOT of power into their voice when addressing folks who are violating our rules. I often perceive this as an attempt to establish authority and/or dominance. This encourages /many/ new folks to come out /swinging/.

                        Guardians, you already /have/ authority and dominance. You needn't establish them.

                        I honestly get the feeling that folks are accustomed to having to /socially/ overpower other players on gaming servers. That's reasonable enough. The Internet is a wasteland.

                        But that posture is the exact /opposite/ of what you should be going for as a Guardian most of the time. You don't want to demand their fear. You're not dependent on it! You want to earn their /respect/ (more important than them respecting YOU when they first arrive is them respecting our rules/culture, implicitly or otherwise).

                        So, tone it down a touch. Stay cool. Be firm, but be kind. With your words. Your tone. Your timing. Your listening. If you can manage it, maintain these postures even when you're dealing with a clown. You're in control. He's not. He's not a threat to you.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Community culture enforcement

                          In short, Wyz is saying... "Do not brazenly brandish your Ban Hammer." :P

                          Mom
                          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                          Forever Perplexed

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Community culture enforcement

                            That is exactly what I mean by when I was staying low key!
                            Who you gonna call?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Community culture enforcement

                              "I see you have found a sacred peach tree of heavenly wisdom."

                              Personally speaking I come from a long, long tradition of internets with a lack of social skills. The tone of the internet is sort of changed over the years, and my human experiments definitely have confirmed over time what you're all saying. Old habits die hard and I get my Dad voice out more often than I need to in the internet things (luckily in TGNS I don't really view myself as an authority, so this only becomes a decision I have to make when the trolls are out, so rarely as they are in NS in general). Hopefully I specifically can take this more to heart and watch more of the things I've already loved in this particular group (I don't like forums, my being here is a great compliment to the fine community you have here).

                              Thanks for the insights, and I appreciate the notes on steps I can take if a Real Issue (tm) comes up. Probably with that Remi guy.

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