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  • Getting kicked out of playing

    The title is basically what it feels like.

    I know it's been a while, but I'm just getting back into playing within these past few days (haven't really played for 6 months). Twice already I've been on the server where I've been playing for a while and getting some good games in. But someone calls a captain's vote. That's fine... I wait to opt-in, but it says I can't because there is only one captain. Next thing I know, the captain picks starts, and I cannot opt-in because it's full. It's as if in a split second, everyone is opted in and I can't play.

    I think people are binding and spamming their keyboard. I'm not sure if that was the intended mechanics of getting into a captain's game, but I can tell you it leaves me feeling really irate about the whole thing. It's like being kicked off the server for no apparent good reason.
    [SimplyWicked.net]*Furious Gorge aka 9, 1001, NSPlayer, CAPS LOCK, CLARK KENT

  • #2
    Re: Getting kicked out of playing

    You can't opt in until there's two captains (what are you opting into if there aren't?) and you DO have to opt-in to play. I highly doubt this is getting spammed (the three I've asked, and myself, all use the menu buttons). People just know when a captains game is starting and opt-in appropriately. Sorry that experience has not worked well for you thus far. Keep trying. I haven't seen anyone have issues with it, so I'm sure it's not a huge issue and there's ways for you to get in on a game. =c)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Getting kicked out of playing

      People definitely do spam if they know the vote is coming. It's not as noticeable on other nights of the week, but mirage has had to bring it up for a few weeks now on Captains Nights.

      That said, once you know the timing (wait for the -moment- the second captain opts in, as Tod mentioned) you can usually make it in with the menu button... but it's easy to miss midgame, for sure. Also, nice to see ya around, Clark. :)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Getting kicked out of playing

        I use the menu buttons and generally wait for a beat or so after I see the 2nd message about a captain volunteering and I don't think anyone ever gets picked all the time, since it's not truly first come first serve, when everyone is opting in at one time it's much more random, hope your luck improves though since it can be hard to enjoy spectating at times if you were really hoping for a game. I know miragezors has reminded people recently on captains nights that not everyone will get to play every round and the only way to guarantee yourself a spot is to be a volunteer captain. I understand though that after being away for a while it does take some time to get back into the swing of playing and to get to know other players.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Getting kicked out of playing

          I don't have issues with Captains Nights. The game is defined (i.e. 16 slots) *prior*. In my mind, that's fair game.

          Note the distinction between Captains Nights (PUG) and Captains games (hybrid PUB-PUG).

          So, non-Captains Nights on the PUB server aka Captains games. In the past... so for the roughly 8-9 years prior since I've been playing on TGNS... everyone that was on the server that wanted to play (whether it be informally, like us going on voice saying, "Let's do Captains!", or formally, by opting-in via menu buttons), got to play.

          Can someone explain the purpose with regards to capping the number of players on the PUB side? For example, we're already playing 9-a-side (18 total) prior to a Captains game... why not just keep it that way? It's worked in the past before Captains became more automated. Games were still generally better than regular PUB. The qualities desired in the captains game (at least in the past) was teamwork and a chance to strategize. Those two things can still occur whether the game is 7-a-side (14 total), 8-a-side (16 total) and 9-a-side.

          Not only that, but people who are "faster" (and I can definitely guarantee it's spamming because the last time it happened to me, someone took the 2nd captain spot... and in a blink of an eye, all the spots were full), even those who have *not* signed the Primer, can play over those who have. Not sure if that is necessarily desired within this community. It used to be the case that having agreed to the Primer was of value... a year ago, a script allowed Primers to play over non-Primers, forcing the non-Primers into Spectator mode (not sure if that is still in play).

          As for Kronos' comments on "random", well, if that's the case, why not have everyone just opt-in... and then let the script/system choose players from that opt-in pool randomly. I think that way is more fair (that is, if there is a good reason to cap the number of players on a Captains game). At the moment, it's not really random. It's spamming buttons.

          I know I risk being labelled a whiner, but it's irritated me enough to keep me away from the server. I don't think I've felt that way about any server in years.
          [SimplyWicked.net]*Furious Gorge aka 9, 1001, NSPlayer, CAPS LOCK, CLARK KENT

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Getting kicked out of playing

            Originally posted by NSPlayer View Post
            I don't have issues with Captains Nights. The game is defined (i.e. 16 slots) *prior*. In my mind, that's fair game.

            Note the distinction between Captains Nights (PUG) and Captains games (hybrid PUB-PUG).

            So, non-Captains Nights on the PUB server aka Captains games. In the past... so for the roughly 8-9 years prior since I've been playing on TGNS... everyone that was on the server that wanted to play (whether it be informally, like us going on voice saying, "Let's do Captains!", or formally, by opting-in via menu buttons), got to play.

            Can someone explain the purpose with regards to capping the number of players on the PUB side? For example, we're already playing 9-a-side (18 total) prior to a Captains game... why not just keep it that way? It's worked in the past before Captains became more automated. Games were still generally better than regular PUB. The qualities desired in the captains game (at least in the past) was teamwork and a chance to strategize. Those two things can still occur whether the game is 7-a-side (14 total), 8-a-side (16 total) and 9-a-side.

            Not only that, but people who are "faster" (and I can definitely guarantee it's spamming because the last time it happened to me, someone took the 2nd captain spot... and in a blink of an eye, all the spots were full), even those who have *not* signed the Primer, can play over those who have. Not sure if that is necessarily desired within this community. It used to be the case that having agreed to the Primer was of value... a year ago, a script allowed Primers to play over non-Primers, forcing the non-Primers into Spectator mode (not sure if that is still in play).

            As for Kronos' comments on "random", well, if that's the case, why not have everyone just opt-in... and then let the script/system choose players from that opt-in pool randomly. I think that way is more fair (that is, if there is a good reason to cap the number of players on a Captains game). At the moment, it's not really random. It's spamming buttons.

            I know I risk being labelled a whiner, but it's irritated me enough to keep me away from the server. I don't think I've felt that way about any server in years.
            I have suggested in the past, when captains starts. The players who are opted in are randomly selected from those on the server and not in spectate (Or maybe everyone who ops in over a 2 minute window), rather then those that are quickest to hit I want captains.

            I certainly agree that it is becoming way to fast for most people who don't play captain's nights to play in captains games over the week. By the time some players can realize that Captains is open, it is long closed and they have to watch.

            It used to be you hit the key on the menu, now people need to use keyboard binds to hit it fast enough. Some people go and spam those, but that side is being taken care of by the admins.

            By design, this time is also during the first minute of a round(!). So it is unfair to players who are currently playing that Spectators and people in the ready room can basically deny them the chance to play the game that they were just in.

            So, maybe we should do something special, where if a Captain game gets enough votes, those already playing on teams win slots in that Captain game over those in the ready room or spec unless they are the captain for a team? Basically, give a big warning ( BIG text, Wyz voice in a prerecord message, Flashing lights and so on) to everyone on a team if they want to play, opt into the captain game, and give them about 30 seconds to do before letting everyone know who is opted in?
            Current game name : Lost, Phantom Thief

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Getting kicked out of playing

              Originally posted by NSPlayer View Post
              Can someone explain the purpose with regards to capping the number of players on the PUB side? For example, we're already playing 9-a-side (18 total) prior to a Captains game... why not just keep it that way? It's worked in the past before Captains became more automated. Games were still generally better than regular PUB. The qualities desired in the captains game (at least in the past) was teamwork and a chance to strategize. Those two things can still occur whether the game is 7-a-side (14 total), 8-a-side (16 total) and 9-a-side.
              both regular pub games and captains are 8v8. not 9v9.

              there have been changes to the captains mod to make the beginning of a captains vote more noticeable to all players on the server.

              anyone/everyone is able to bind sh_iwantcaptains. if you find using the M menu takes to long, bind it.

              spamming is a separate issue, and like Lost said it is being monitored.

              I will agree that it can be a abrupt and aggravating when a captains vote starts when a game has already begun. especially if you were only planning on playing 1 more round for whatever reason. it almost forces people to opt in if they want to play ns on the server at all, which is why i would prefer that we settle the matter in the readyroom prior to joining teams. though i understand this is not as streamlined as the alternative.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Getting kicked out of playing

                Very intentional to my design is that everyone who opts in gets to play.

                I'll tonight introduce an X-second cooldown to sh_iwantcaptains. Every invocation of the command, whatever its outcome, will reset the X-second cooldown timer for that player.

                I'll start X at 3.

                The other issues are solved by situational awareness, I think.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Getting kicked out of playing

                  That may be risky though Wyz. I believe a race condition exists when everyone is hitting iwantcaptains which sometimes causes an error. I've received an error before (iirc the message was something like "too many people voting for captains") when voting directly after the vote was opened up. Revoting worked but if a 3 second voting cool down was evoked after a system exception which then causes I/whomever to not be able to get in due to not being able to revote I imagine that person would not be happy.

                  Is there a way to differentiate between a warning ("voting for captains is disabled") and error ("system crossed the streams") and only have the cool down on warnings? I know its an edge case but I have seen that error more than a few times on captains night when so many are voting to join.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Getting kicked out of playing

                    I've heard rumors of the error you're talking about. To anyone who can help: I need repro steps for that. (or expressions that it's seemingly gone after recent code changes).

                    I want the cooldown to teach people that they /shouldn't/ be spamming the command /before/ voting opens (or, really, ever). So, the cooldown will apply in that scenario also. Indeed, the cooldown will apply initially (see below) for all executions of the command.


                    And yet your point is well taken, [MENTION=83281]FARVA[/MENTION] - I'll be watching closely for feedback.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Getting kicked out of playing

                      I believe the message I've seen in that situation Farva was 'Too many players have opted in', but I interpreted that as the captain's game opt-in was full already, not that it couldn't take my request. Whether that was accurate or not is hard to judge since once the messages showed up showing who was opted in, the captains and who was not opted in there were still spots open on at least one occasion. I'll keep an eye out though with the updated captain's game code to see if it comes up again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Getting kicked out of playing

                        Or we can get both servers going on captains night so everyone can play
                        Kalost_tpf/twitch.tv

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Getting kicked out of playing

                          Yeah Kronos, I thought that was the error message text as well before I posted but wasnt sure - now that you've confirmed, I am certain the scenario I have seen a few times is exactly how you described. Unfortunately, in regards to recreating the issue, I believe this is a race condition so writing steps to recreate would be difficult or impossible. If you want to try and recreate it you can start a Captain's vote on a full (at least 16 players) server and ask everyone to click "sh_iwantcaptains" as quickly as possible following the two Captains committing - it may be worth a shot just to test it. Also, it's certainly possible this issue was caused by people spamming the command. I experienced the issue probably only 3-4 times but also many times the vote would fill up in the same amount of time and I wouldn't see the issue which leads me to think that maybe, unbeknownst to me, people were spamming the command and causing the issue. If that is the case then the cool down will actually fix the race condition (or at least make it so it does not occur).

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