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  • ns2_tgns_tanith meta

    5,427 views. 261 replies, not counting this one. 18 pages... 10 or 11 months. 382 hours. It is the 3rd most popular thread in these forums, only bested by the Primer and the Captains Night Videos threads.

    That is Tanith by the numbers.

    And, yet, there are still silent people who hate the map.

    I can't stress to you guys enough how much I need you to be vocal with your concerns. I learned tonight that two people, one of which I hold in high regard, simply do not vote for Tanith because it has problems. The map is not perfect, I understand that, and I appreciate criticism whenever it comes my way.

    But it bothers me a LOT that people are silent about their feelings with the map. If you hate it, that's fine. But, tell me /why/ you hate it. Explain to me what you think needs to be done. I can't stress enough the fact that I will work till my fingers bleed to make this map fit in the community. I will try my best to make each and every one of you happy (which we all know is impossible)... but I can't do that blindly.

    Tonight I was met with anger about Tanith. I'd like to take this opportunity to be clear about a few things.

    This is not my map. This map has TGNS on it for a reason. I am getting feedback from 3 different communities like TGNS. Not quite as large, but communities all the same. I get about a thousand times more feedback from them than I do from TGNS. And... every... single... word... of it is ignored. This is not their map. This is YOUR map. So, if you have problems with it, tell me in text either here or via PM. Because that is the only way I can make the changes you have in mind.

    But, you should all be aware... if anger is how you are going to approach seeing Tanith be voted in... or if the map itself begins to strengthen this divide I am beginning to see between the part of the community who like Tanith, and the part that doesn't, then I will delete the mod from the workshop and there will be no more Tanith for anyone. I'll not let something I've worked tirelessly in the spirit of communication and charity to people I hold in high regards serve as a wedge driven between a community we all hold dear.

    There are new maps in the works across the board. I count 5 that I know of that look like they will be decent. I have tested 3 of them. Of those 3, one is even close to being balanced. That one is also a very beautiful map. So, of all the players of NS2 out there, and all the time that has been spent working on new maps... ONE of them that I have tested is remotely close to being worthy of TGNS. I ran custom night for like 3 weeks a while back.. some of you remember that, I'm sure. Of all those maps that we played (9 or so?), none of them were added to rotation. (Please know I'm excluding Beige's maps... I haven't played Temple lately). There is no other community/clan in NS2 that can say that they have their own ns2_ map, afaik. TGNS can say that. I don't want that to die, but I can't keep it alive by myself.

    All that said...

    I'm planning on removing the vent from Cargo to Fusion. I will also be removing the crane from Cargo, and adding rafters that that will make it difficult to take advantage of as flying players (IE: hard to shoot from, bad angles, etc). I will be leaving the platforms that allow gorge tunnels for now. I haven't seen them used at all yet, so I'm not sure what's up with that. The map itself seems mostly balanced. There is some vent work that needs to be removed. Concerns were brought up tonight about how much real estate Waste has just for one node. I feel like Waste is okay. If you have concerns, bring them up. I will attempt to address them.

    The grand idea at this point is to simplify the map. There are a lot of props and things that I used to get the map to a playable version that I now have time to change to geo or something of the sort. The minimap needs a lot of work as well... I will be addressing that to try and stave some of the confusion off new players to the map. You can expect things of this nature in the coming weeks.

    Thanks guys.

    Mom
    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
    Forever Perplexed

  • #2
    Re: ns2_tgns_tanith

    Thanks for all you do, Yermo.
    remi.D

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ns2_tgns_tanith

      I do it for you guys.

      I just wish I had more of the community telling me likes and dislikes. I feel like people think the map is my map... and they put my name all over it. I've tried during this entire thing to try and make clear that it is not my map. It's TGNS's map. I'm like a contractor building a house. I'll do what you tell me while using the standards I know.

      Mom
      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
      Forever Perplexed

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ns2_tgns_tanith

        Take it from another creator: There will always be silent people who hate the map.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ns2_tgns_tanith meta

          I've moved the above posts out of the ns2_tgns_tanith thread, which I want preserved for discussion about the map.

          Meta discussion, whatever more of it there is, can happen here.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ns2_tgns_tanith

            Mid-game on tanith tonight, a TG forum account holder giving clear and repetitive feedback told me without arrogance, rudeness, or doubt that he would not be posting it in the forum thread.

            At that moment, having myself created for NS2 for two years, I put myself in Mom's shoes. At the point that someone feels entitled to repeatedly giving feedback only when and where they choose, an NS2 volunteer with a spouse, kids, career, and everything else that comes with real life has to decide if he wants to be on duty anytime someone impulsively chooses her preferred medium to give feedback on her schedule or if he wants to patiently (and again patiently... and again patiently... and again patiently...) tell them that he only has enough stamina to receive and discuss feedback in one place while he reliably carves out some time for himself to /play/.

            We consumers sometimes feel very entitled to creators listening intently to our feedback how and when we see fit. A lot of volunteers accommodate that impulsiveness. Good on them for making the consumers' lives even easier. But no volunteer should be made to feel under /duress/ to accommodate that kind of impulsiveness, in my STRONGLY-held opinion, especially when he has so clearly provided such an easy path to providing feedback that he KNOWS he'll be able to read and discuss with others whenever he's wearing his Creator hat.
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ns2_tgns_tanith meta

              To that degree:

              I will no longer be taking feedback in the server about the map. Any conversation about this being wrong or that not working right will be ignored. I leave it to Wyz and my fellow Guardians/Admin to administrate any conversation like this. Not only does it take away from my experience, but it takes away from the experience of your peers as well.

              Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the feedback. But, I simply cannot keep up with words over voice. I literally retain about 5% of it... and that's before I leave the game, start the Editor, wait for it to load... etc... God forbid my infant wakes up or my son/daughter comes out of their room to ask me to sleep on the couch or tell me they need water. I can't keep up with it, and it's a waste of your good feedback, of my efforts, and of the time of the people who just want to play. Focusing on what is wrong while playing is ruining games, and ultimately, I think, flawing the creation process.

              Wyz is right. There is an outlet for your feedback. He tried very hard to persuade me tonight to no longer accept IM's via Steam for feedback. I won't do that. I realize what it means to have little time.

              I will do my best to capture all feedback from Steam IM that I receive. I will take my time to break your comments in Steam down in to a post for the Tanith thread.

              That said... Steam IM is not a very reliable tool. There is a chance that I will lose your message. There is a chance that my wife will close it. Etc., etc.,

              If you are going to give me feedback on Steam IM, I /will/ reply to you. If I do not reply to you, know I did not get your feedback. If you take the time to write a few paragraphs about the map and choose to deliver them in Steam IM, then please take the time to copy and paste them in to a Notepad until I respond back to you.

              Mom
              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
              Forever Perplexed

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ns2_tgns_tanith meta

                Always asking to sleep on the couch. I BOUGHT YOU A BED. I GAVE IT AN ENTIRE ROOM. Ugh.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ns2_tgns_tanith

                  Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
                  We consumers sometimes feel very entitled to creators listening intently to our feedback how and when we see fit.
                  This is very similar to what I encountered when I worked at IW on the CoD games, even among people I had counted as friends. For whatever reason, they interpreted me telling them where I work as permission for them to air all their opinions and complaints of what is wrong with CoD (including the games I wasn't even involved with). Personally I chose to respond to this by writing them off if they engage in this behavior (seeing as they're not really my friend if they can't separate supporting me from their need to get on a soapbox). I think there are a lot of similar motivations between what you are describing and the way these people reacted. People don't seem to realize their opinion doesn't always need to be voiced, and that doing so can actually hurt their friend or at the very least sap their motivation.
                  remi.D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ns2_tgns_tanith meta

                    The motivation comment is huge.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ns2_tgns_tanith meta

                      +1 blu.

                      Mom
                      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                      Forever Perplexed

                      Comment

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