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WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

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  • WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

    Some of you may know that with a recent release (I think Build 269), Hive stats have been reset and a new algorithm is in place for ranking.

    The new system works solely off wins & losses. Some quick info (subject to correction - based on my discussions with CDT members):

    * An average hive ranking score is calculated for each team.
    ** The calculation is made continuously, over the course of the match
    ** The longer you spend on a team, the more your skill level effects the team average (to account for mid/late joiners/leavers)
    ** The time you spend on a team also effects how much your score will be adjusted (to account for switching teams)

    * The winning team is awarded points, and the losing team is deducted points
    ** The amount of points awarded/deducted is determined by the skill deficit calculated above. For example:
    *** a winning team with a higher skill rating than a losing team is only awarded a small number of points
    *** a winning team with a lower skill rating than a losing team is awarded a large number of points

    The purpose of this thread is to draw attention to the fact that WinOrLose can now greatly effect hive rankings (and, subsequently, hive rankings are used to calculate auto-balance).

    There now exists the very real possibility that a team would be penalized greatly, despite their opponent conceding, should the WinOrLose plugin alter the result of the game to the hive.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

    WinOrLose causes the losing team to win less than 5% of the time. I'm content to continue with the status quo, especially until the points prove themselves capable of significantly advancing balanced gameplay across the NS2 title.
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    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

      I think if aliens concede, marines should be given automatic W3 and unlimited ammo. It takes an absurd amount of time to gun down a hive at W0, but if marines concede just as early, skulks will never have a problem biting down the CC.

      Besides, I thought the point of this mod was to give the winning team the satisfaction of wiping out the enemy team's Hive/CC. W0 is never satisfying. ;)

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      • #4
        Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

        Being given W3 doesn't make it more satisfying than having earned it prior to the concede. Same thing with catpacks. I understand it's fun to have the toys at the end, but if you are given it without earning it the point of the win or lose is changed and the desire to kill stuff instead of the hive likely increases.
        remi.D

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        • #5
          Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

          ...and it's MORE satisfying to not get the hive down in time?

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          • #6
            Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

            It's more satisfying to be able to shoot it down quick when you've actually earned W3 if you're not always gifted W3.
            remi.D

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            • #7
              Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

              Originally posted by blu.knight View Post
              It's more satisfying to be able to shoot it down quick when you've actually earned W3 if you're not always gifted W3.
              ...when the game is OVER??? It doesn't matter at all! My whole point is that it is, on average MUCH faster for skulks to bite down the chair than it is for marines to shoot down the hive. When have you EVER lost as aliens because you couldn't kill the chair in time during winorlose? Never! Not "rarely", but never! With marines, it's a different story.

              Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about "earning" the weapons I'm using during win or lose. Hell, I think it'd be great if, when the enemy team conceded, you would be beaconed into the hive room, given a GL, and told to go to down. It would certainly be a lot clearer what just happened when win or lose suddenly pops up.

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              • #8
                Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                part of winorlose is that the winning team has to finish the deal. there's a chance, albeit small, that they can not do so. giving them w3 would defeat that purpose. You still have to earn your win with what you have, we aren't handing it to you.

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                • #9
                  Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                  WinOrTroll!

                  If aliens concede, marines lose all weapons and are given unlimited cluster grenades to kill hive with
                  If marines concede, all aliens are transformed into gorges with only babblers available to kill CC with

                  I think I'm onto something big here! :icon14:
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                  • #10
                    Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                    You guys are taking this too far. It's a mod on the server, it's part of our daily routine.

                    If one team concedes, and the other team doesn't kill the hive... that team loses. They deserve to lose at that point.

                    Granted, there may or may not be enough time to kill a hive depending on the scenario, but that is a product of the mod being flawed slightly and can be changed based on our feedback.

                    I think it's asking a lot to expect to always win a game when the other team concedes given our current environment. Asking for that removes from the game an opportunity from the losing team to stop the winning team and makes for a fun little side game.

                    If you ask me, it's a make or break deal. We either have it (and maybe increase the time by 10 seconds) or we remove it entirely. I vote the former.

                    Mom
                    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

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                    Forever Perplexed

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                    • #11
                      Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                      Originally posted by YerMom View Post
                      If one team concedes, and the other team doesn't kill the hive... that team loses. They deserve to lose at that point.
                      But my point is that, currently, it is imbalanced. Marines are slower, and potentially deal MUCH less damage to the hive. Skulks never have a problem taking down the chair, but I've seen it get down to <5 seconds with teams of marines that were not in any way incompetent, just didn't have weapon upgrades and aliens conceded when marines were very far away. All I'm saying is give marines an equal opportunity to kill the hive once winorlose hits.

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                      • #12
                        Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                        *heavy coughing*

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                        Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                        Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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                        • #13
                          Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                          The way I see it, this is the "Just finish it" of the game. I think it's a good system. I've seen both sides lose because they weren't able to finish shooting the hive, or munching on the chair. I've seen both sides end in a draw as well. Seems pretty fair to me.
                          HaX^

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                          • #14
                            Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                            Originally posted by BeigeAlert View Post
                            But my point is that, currently, it is imbalanced. Marines are slower, and potentially deal MUCH less damage to the hive. Skulks never have a problem taking down the chair, but I've seen it get down to <5 seconds with teams of marines that were not in any way incompetent, just didn't have weapon upgrades and aliens conceded when marines were very far away. All I'm saying is give marines an equal opportunity to kill the hive once winorlose hits.
                            WinOrLose causes the losing team to win less than 5% of the time.
                            Is it really imbalanced if we aren't seeing that many loosing team wins? How many times do you experience this per night? And if the marines do lose, how many aliens have they killed to reduce the timer?

                            Let us not forget the topic here is winorlose in relation to hive skill rating. not winorlose functionality.

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                            • #15
                              Re: WinOrLose's effect on new Hive rankings/balance

                              Originally posted by jack^ View Post
                              Is it really imbalanced if we aren't seeing that many loosing team wins? How many times do you experience this per night? And if the marines do lose, how many aliens have they killed to reduce the timer?

                              Let us not forget the topic here is winorlose in relation to hive skill rating. not winorlose functionality.
                              It's enough to where that's the #1 gripe I hear from people about TGNS servers: the win or lose mod. It happens more often than you'd think, especially if you're on the server for more than just captains nights, or the prime time when everybody on the server is a regular.

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