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  • NS2+ Stats

    I know the server's current policy on showing stats, but I wanted to bring this up for discussion because the stats have at times shown on the server and I've found it valuable to have. I'm curious if we could entertain a social solution instead of a hard disable to the feature.

    The two aspects I find most useful:

    Stats on ammo/medpack/catpack drops
    This helped to better myself as a com by making it so I could tell how well I was managing my resources in the macro-strat, and how res-efficient I was being with my support
    - I believe about 50% of my medpacks were not being picked up. This meant when deciding to drop a med, I needed to think of it as 2 tres, not 1.
    - This was essential as well for when I was practicing the 45sec catpack strategy. My efficiency/accuracy with them was around 90-95%. The actual cost of catpack support vs a med for me was actually very similar. Being able to see post-game the total spent on catpacks was also let me measure how useful it was relative to lifeforms killed, positions held, and rt's saved.

    Stats on weapon accuracy (per life, and for a round)
    Helps to see if my aim is improving. Aim is so important in this game and we've had threads in here about doing burst shots instead of just holding down the trigger, but the only way we have to measure aim progress currently is # of kills. Seeing accuracy is more granular of a measure.


    Social solution:
    - I know the thought is that comparing stats is bad, but we do it anyways just in different ways, and with different numbers. It's possible we're all mature enough to show the stats and not even have this be a concern. In NS1 I believe we even had the round-end stats (who did the most damage to structures, etc).
    - No one cares about stats (culture design) -- If everyone responds "no one cares" when someone talks about stats, there's no reason to pimp them.
    - No one talks about stats (social rule) -- Hard to enforce, because what is a stat? Rad claiming to have killed two of my gorges? Someone going 19-2? 30% weapon accuracy?


    Yup. Let's discuss.

    :)
    remi.D

  • #2
    Re: NS2+ Stats

    Not sure if we're referencing the same one, but is it the same huge box that shows on round end with all the stats when dropped to the RR?
    Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
    Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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    • #3
      Re: NS2+ Stats

      Probably. Mendasp changed the display of it a couple times. I haven't seen the most recent version since I only play on TG :P

      There's also end-of-life stats I believe which show your accuracy each life.
      remi.D

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      • #4
        Re: NS2+ Stats

        I tried to take a screenshot of the stats board but failed on another server that runs it. I dislike how huge it is on my screen, and would rather hit X to open it when the round ends so it doesn't auto popup. With that chart you don't really need the stuff in the white text IMO.
        Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
        Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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        • #5
          Re: NS2+ Stats

          I recently said we'd tolerate less, and "talking about personal stats while on the game server" is nothing we'll tolerate.

          So, I'm all for turning them on and seeing what happens, but only if I have confidence that we, not just OP and admins, are on the same page about strictly (politely, but firmly) enforcing against that noise. This can't be something that "the admins enforce". Personal stats staying personal while on the game server must be something that "the community demands".

          The "how will we recognize it?" question has already been answered with the language enforcement: proceed until someone asks you to stop. Sharing personal stats once or twice will bring expectation education, not removal (immediate, on-the-game-server debate about the expectation itself might bring removal). Like any spirit enforcement, you'll have to get it wrong habitually before consequences get real.

          Can I get a few TGNS regulars (Guardians or not) to tell me THEY are comfortable being the ones to politely enforce against discussion of personal stats while on the game server (I know it might be a bit sloppy while everyone gets acclimated)?
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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          • #6
            Re: NS2+ Stats

            Can't each client choose to disable it for himself? I guess I thought that was the case. That would certainly be a prerequisite to adding it to the server. I'm not going to enable an obtrusive implementation.
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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            • #7
              Re: NS2+ Stats

              What stats are recorded? And can we pick and choose which to show?

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              • #8
                Re: NS2+ Stats

                Nothing is persisted beyond the client, so "recorded" is a touch of a misnomer.

                I can't speak to which are displayed, or if some can be hidden while others are shown.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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                • #9
                  Re: NS2+ Stats

                  Is it possible to export those stats to the TGNS Ready Room?

                  So rather then see your exact stats as the end of the round, you could wander in there and see something a little more high level, and maybe a few of the exact stats of the last day or so, with round end time listed so you can look back for the round that you want.

                  So you can peak there to see things like, average lifeforms time, average accuracy and things like that. But as they will not be directly on the server, people will be less inclined to talk about them on the server. Those that want to use it to tell thinks like what Remi wants to, can go look it up after they are done playing for the night. Rather then trying to quickly look them over at the end of a round.

                  If it possible, I think that might be the best way to display stats.
                  Current game name : Lost, Phantom Thief

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                  • #10
                    Re: NS2+ Stats

                    That's technically possible, a metric ton of effort, and not at all on the horizon presently.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: NS2+ Stats

                      Could stats be available via the portal?

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                      • #12
                        Re: NS2+ Stats

                        We could make available on the Portal some of the info we're gathering for achievements, but it wouldn't be the NS2+ stats.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: NS2+ Stats

                          For reference, here's what it looks like:

                          http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/...9D7A39264AB60/

                          You can use the scrollbar to see everybody's stats, and your own details. As comm I believe you also see your own comm stats as remi said. It prompted me to 'press x' to see my stats on round end, and I didn't notice it popping up automatically this time.

                          Personally, I'm fine with testing it as its unobtrusive if its at my discretion to view. The ones that I dislike are the "last round stats" that show in white after every death. If I can turn those white stats off in my local NS2+ options (which I think I can) then that's fine by me.
                          Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                          Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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                          • #14
                            Re: NS2+ Stats

                            Looking at that screen, I disagree that sort of screen more on principle then anything. It one thing to show a player their personal stats, and a general team stat, Such as Marines team 20% accuracy, or something like that.

                            But each player's personal stats being shown to every player on the server is not going to help us keep the community that we want here.

                            So I am going to cast my vote against anything that is not a player seeing only their own stats, or their team overall stats that are simple things like Res Towers built/killed. And not on a per player basis.
                            Current game name : Lost, Phantom Thief

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                            • #15
                              Re: NS2+ Stats

                              Good point Lost, it can be useful for self improvement to see one's stats, but the NS2+ version is showing some stats for every person who played and I think would tend towards comparisons and the bad habits of those who not only care greatly about stats but about how they compare to others.

                              I've recently even been wishing we didn't report our stats back to the hive since it's in one sense it's easier to enjoy the game for itself when it doesn't even matter if you win or lose. Though I understand that it may make it more difficult to determine balance if there is no skill system influence; but, I don't think those skill stats in the hive even work very well though our internal stats that drive the positive badges and whatever else they collect may be good enough to handle balance.

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