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Feature request: Marine squads

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  • Feature request: Marine squads

    In light of the other thread about localized voice comms, I'm reminded to mention an idea of mine.

    Similar to the !plan feature, I wish the commander could click icons in the scoreboard to assign squads. Three would suffice; Red, Blue and Green. The rationale is intuitive.

    And maybe I hope it would be trivial effort for TG's programmer(s)[singular] to recycle the chevron code? A restricted access, scoreboard-clicking bit-flipping thing?

    I, for one, would use the hell out of it, and I bet it would see a lot of use during Captain's games.

    The counter to these types of requests is frequently that players are capable of self organizing with enough communication and cooperation, and mechanical devices shouldn't be necessary. That is of course not incorrect.

  • #2
    Re: Feature request: Marine squads

    Daddy, is this funny feeling in my stomach... love?
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Feature request: Marine squads

      I would say 1,2,3 rather than red green blue for all our colorblind friends out there ;)
      HaX^

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      • #4
        Re: Feature request: Marine squads

        This feature is now on the game server, and I'd love some feedback (its icons may change appearance/location, but I wanted to deploy quickly and start feeling out the functionality).

        My quick opinion after just a few rounds with it tonight (not in earnest use, but just testing it) is that, while any tool can be misused such that it's more distracting than helpful, I do see potential in being able to "label" folks on the scoreboard as belonging to a specific group. I'm more skeptical when it comes to mid-game management of the squads, but I'm keeping an open mind.

        davean mentioned on the game server that it'd be neat if your squad number appeared in the HUD somewhere, so that may happen with more time.

        Only teammates (and Spectators) may see your squad on the scoreboard, and only Commanders and Captains may change someone's squad (just click on the squad circle to advance its value).

        Feedback welcome. Please report defects.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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        • #5
          Re: Feature request: Marine squads

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          • #6
            Re: Feature request: Marine squads

            As long as we're granting wishes, there are three other places squad information should show up

            - On your own HUD, per davean
            - Attached to the players from the commander's perspective
            - Attached to the players from the first-person perspective

            Despite 1500 hours logged, I can not recall what player nameplates look like, if they exist at all. Isn't there an indicator for the type of weapon they're carrying? Is that an opportunity to bolt on more data?

            Anything to reduce the need to memorize or cross reference names with squad color-blindness will make the feature more useful.

            Bonus points for

            - Marines in the same squad can see each other outlined through walls, hive-vision style
            - Aliens can not aliens are awful and need to chill out

            Sidenote: I feel very passionately about this feature and I believe it is missing from the game. Not like a "it would be nice if it had it" but like an "omg how did you forget to add this," condescending sort of passion. It's so obvious, so simple. I imagine a future where Wyz's implementation serves as the prototype and proof of concept for a CDT implementation. It's beautiful.

            Or maybe it should just be a standalone server mod.

            Subsidenote: As kind of a lore-friendly thing, I wouldn't mind if aliens DIDN'T have this feature. That would fit the tradition of both teams having fuzzy analogs of similar capabilities. Aliens have hive-sight, or whatever it is called. Marines have squads. Aliens are encouraged to roll around on their lonesome, and pack up with whoever is nearby to coordinate hits with their hive-sight. Marines are encouraged to stick to designated groups and leverage that brotherhood.

            I'm also willing to personally fund thd development of squad-based sprays. "RED TEAM WAS HERE ALIENS ARE GROSS"

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            • #7
              Re: Feature request: Marine squads

              If this assists in the commander figuring out who's name to call, that's great. If they start saying "blue squad" or "Squad 5", it's another layer of cognitive indirection between you and the person you're trying to address, which slows down communication. The reason the names on the minimap feature worked so well is because it removed one of these layers and people now tend to call out names of players rather than the location they are in, which makes it far easier to know when you are being talked to. Of course, people still use locations as well, but increasing the usage of a more direct method of addressing another player was a win. If this feature decreases that direct method, it is bad.
              remi.D

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              • #8
                Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                Counterpoint: So many people have inscrutably stupid names, and the font treatment has low readability. "Remi, Wyz, Roland, Geri, Samn, Aero" is fine, and maybe once you play with them long enough you can just learn to remember the more ambiguous ones. But you want to talk about cognitive challenges to communication, try asking ``'-.,_,.-'``'-.,_,.= to get back to base ASAP.

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                • #9
                  Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                  Originally posted by Samn View Post
                  Counterpoint: So many people have inscrutably stupid names, and the font treatment has low readability. "Remi, Wyz, Roland, Geri, Samn, Aero" is fine, and maybe once you play with them long enough you can just learn to remember the more ambiguous ones. But you want to talk about cognitive challenges to communication, try asking ``'-.,_,.-'``'-.,_,.= to get back to base ASAP.

                  That Eddy, Easy enough. Just say, Eddy get back to base ASAP.

                  If you can't figure out how to say someone name, ask them before you need to ask them do to something. Not when you need them to do something. We do have a preround for a reason, and it not just so marines can stare at the comm chair trying to shame the others into being a commander.

                  If they just joined at team, Whoever just joined, get to x, and tell me how to say your name.
                  Current game name : Lost, Phantom Thief

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                  • #10
                    Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                    We got ourselves a game!
                    remi.D

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                    • #11
                      Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                      Originally posted by blu.knight View Post
                      If this assists in the commander figuring out who's name to call, that's great. If they start saying "blue squad" or "Squad 5", it's another layer of cognitive indirection between you and the person you're trying to address, which slows down communication. The reason the names on the minimap feature worked so well is because it removed one of these layers and people now tend to call out names of players rather than the location they are in, which makes it far easier to know when you are being talked to. Of course, people still use locations as well, but increasing the usage of a more direct method of addressing another player was a win. If this feature decreases that direct method, it is bad.
                      I generally agree with this. The dynamic squad system was dropped in early development because (IIRC) they couldn't find a way to make it work well or be meaningful so its difficult to stay with a consistent squad. I see the squad numbers being useful for some during the planning stage of captains, but not during general game play since the game is so fluid it is usually more effective to call out names.

                      Still, its useful to have it there if desired.
                      Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                      Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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                      • #12
                        Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                        I mean don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting disagreed at.

                        But someone would have a real uphill battle if they tried to persuade me that a bold color scheme or high contrast squad numbers could possibly be less effective or efficient than moving, blue on blue, unfamiliar, aphonetic text.

                        Source: Rods and cones



                        At any rate, elements of design aside, squads are fantastic. It has all the merits of the !plan feature, plus a convenient interface. I can understand why it would be left out of the initial game development and considered generally just "too much." Perhaps it does only have a home on a server like TGNS. It should be a server mod at least.

                        And by "should" I just mean the way I would arrange the universe, and not a more immediate potentially bossy-sounding direction to those on this board who might be the ones actually investing energy in it.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                          And by "should" I just mean the way I would arrange the universe, and not a more immediate potentially bossy-sounding direction to those on this board who might be the ones actually investing energy in it.
                          Look forward to seeing it used tonight during captains. I will probably be using it to designate squads on marines (instead of my usual group 1-3) then having people use plan to put it on the scoreboard. Some better looking icons are coming too.
                          Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                          Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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                          • #14
                            Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                            Wow, that sounds like a very interesting idea. I too look forward to giving it a try during a future captains night.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Feature request: Marine squads

                              Squads was very useful on marines at the start of a captains round. Beyond the first 60 seconds I have not seen it used or even mentioned yet. Because of that maybe squad information drops after the first 60 seconds so there is less visual clutter. Or maybe just a captains feature.

                              The icon itself looks very nice, but out of place on the score board. I would not be able to suggest something better.

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