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  • two changes to Captains

    I've made two changes to Captains mode on the server.

    ) most players, not all, must vote it in

    ) when first Captain types "ready", force-game timer drops to 1 minute (60 seconds) remaining

    This will make it easier to vote it in and help keep the pre-game focus on planning.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: two changes to Captains

    Strongly disagree with the second change here.

    Most Captain matches are on the longer side of things. After a 30 minute round most people need a few minutes to get ready for the next round. Go grab a drink, use the rest room, and things like that.

    The current round timer between rounds allows that nicely and if both team are ready early, they can use the ready command to start.

    I don't see this leading to quicker round 2 games. I see this leading to a lot more round 2 games that end in surrender because the Marines did not need to hit the rest room. One or two aliens did and the marine ready and by the time the aliens get back. Two of their best plays had missed the first 3 minutes of the round and the only thing left to do that that point is surrender. It not fair to both teams that a round ends up being a surrender because one team wants to say they are ready and the other team is acting as if they still had another 4 minutes, rather then 1 minute to be ready themselves.

    The second change at best is going to do nothing, at worse it going to lead to a lot worse captain games as only one round get played for real and the second is a surrender because people are not ready.

    You can't ask a person to invest an hour without a 5 minute break in the middle to stop and use the restroom or grab a drink. It not reasonable, and the only time I could see a ready from the other side being allowed to reduce the timer, would be if we added a 5 minute break between rounds before planning.
    Current game name : Lost, Phantom Thief

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    • #3
      Re: two changes to Captains

      The 60-second forced timer on the other team will rarely allow less than 90 seconds for a bio/drink break.

      A 12-second forced timer on the other team would generally allow just over 2 minutes for a bio/drink break.

      Bio/drink breaks needn't be given /too/ much time in the context of everyone else being ready to play.

      We've proven many times that "being ready" and "typing ready" too often are NOT synonymous.

      I'm all for tweaking the changes based on feedback, but I don't see us returning to the 5-unopposed-minutes status quo, as that was too regularly an inefficient use of everyone's pre-game time.

      I'm open to other implementation suggestions, but the first tweak I'd imagine happening, after we see that 60 seconds is regularly painful, is bumping that timer up a bit (to 90 seconds? 2 minutes?).
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: two changes to Captains

        That is a strong argument, Lost. I think it is fairly common for someone to sneak an AFK break between rounds 1 and 2. Goodness knows I do it sometimes. Maybe the game start could be delayed if the shortened countdown reaches 0 while someone is AFK. That complicates the system, but maybe it is worthwhile.

        I think Wyzcrak is right about not returning to 5-unopposed-minutes. I've played enough games where nobody wants to come up with a plan and most of that time goes by in silence, for no better reason than because one captain or the other, or both, didn't think to issue the ready command.

        I think the mod should play a sound every time a captain readies-up. Like the simple tone that plays periodically during winorlose. This will increase awareness that one team is ready and the other needs to pick up the pace. Maybe also play the sound periodically for AFK players when there is less than 1 minute left, in case they have the means to hear the game but not see it.

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        • #5
          Re: two changes to Captains

          Automating decisions (timer extensions or reminder sounds) based on AFK status is very risky, as accurately detecting the presence or absense of a human is quite tricky. For instance, if someone returns from AFK with 3 seconds left on the timer, do we extend? If someone's ready to play but idle, do we ping them with repetitive sound? The answers become complicated fast.

          We typically don't, but full admins can manually reset the Captains timer if we issue the command before the timer expires, so don't hesitate to request that as a quick workaround as we iron out kinks in the changed pre-game timers.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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          • #6
            Re: two changes to Captains

            Originally posted by Brian_NS2 View Post
            I think the mod should play a sound every time a captain readies-up.
            I didn't argue against this sound in my last post, as it doesn't regard AFK players. I have to ask, though: do we have any problems with the other team's non-AFK members overlooking the "ready"? I don't think so -- especially with the new timer change. They may be /unhappy/ about it, but I don't think they've /overlooked/ it. Thoughts?
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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            • #7
              Re: two changes to Captains

              Nah, the sound really isn't necessary I suppose. No more necessary than it is during winorlose anyway. :D

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              • #8
                Re: two changes to Captains

                Adding it to WinOrLose was in response to folks claiming that non-AFK players were overlooking the other team conceding. If we get lots of reports of non-AFK players overlooking the other team readying, I'm all for adding some sound, even if it seems "unnecessary". The sound /is/ a good aid to awareness, when awareness is lacking.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: two changes to Captains

                  Pre-game time is not meant to be time for people to check out and it shouldn't require the whole server to idle for five minutes. The pre-game time is for planning what will happen in the game, after teams have been picked. As its been, we've taught people to alt tab, scroll through facebook, get up and walk away from their computer, and in general not pay attention to their team's plan during the time that is designated for planning. There's some reeducation that is required there.

                  The time for doing all that non-planning stuff is during map loads, and if you must get up during the planning thing, your team can always ask the other time to please unready because of an afk. If some games are starting before people are ready because of this, that's a good thing. It's teaching people that during captains you must be focused and figure out the teamwork / tactics that this server requires at the time that it requires. This is the stuff that makes a captains game more unique/memorable/"better" because it brings an even greater focus on the teamplay that we all love.
                  Last edited by blu.knight; 09-26-2015, 01:56 AM.
                  remi.D

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                  • #10
                    Re: two changes to Captains

                    Full, vibrant Captains Night tonight, and no problems with the new timer design, despite players coming and going from AFK at times. More observation needed.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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