Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Capts vs. Regular Play

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Capts vs. Regular Play

    I love captains mode and the team work and planning that goes into it. Even the last pick people are usually so good I have seen them roll other servers. The problem as of late, is when we get only one elite level player. The balance mod does a good job of balanceing someone of that caliber against some of the best regulars. Though when only one elite player joins captains it can throw off the balance as the balance alternates between teams of the next best players. I do love playing with and against people of the caliber, though it either makes the game frustratingly hard or not much of a challenge, depending on the team. I would like to purpose we nominate players of this caliber and if they are a first pick, the 2nd pick gets the next two or three in that case. I don't like one sided games either way.

    I hate to bring up "hive", though if you do look at the hive of these types of players their normal TG games are closer to 1:1 and the captains games are over 10:1 win:loss ratio. If two elite players join, that should balance it out.
    Last edited by solarity; 06-11-2016, 01:16 AM.
    Lights Out!

  • #2
    Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

    I agree that balance is usually hard to maintain in captains mode, but I actually enjoy the randomness associated with picks and the subsequently careful (or reckless) planning using what you have. These two phases tend to make captains games more unpredictable than auto-balanced ones. Of course, some captains make mistakes or do not make the best picks, leading to several of the best players on one team. One player might constantly decimate the other team and make a large impact on the game state. Both of these scenarios make games more predictable and not fun for the losing team. Of course, when the team that is by all means supposed to lose manages to win, victory is certainly sweet.

    On KKG's captains server, I think they ran a version of the mod where the captain with the second pick was allowed to pick two players. Afterwards, it reverted to one player per pick. This was sometimes very imbalanced if the first pick was not a particularly good one. Either way, it forced the captain with the first pick to play catch-up after the second two picks. It pretty much guaranteed that, at the beginning, picks were based on pure mechanical skill over those that leaned towards other qualities like commanding, defending/recapping, dropping sneaky tunnels, etc.

    Perhaps there could be an in-game option for primers to toggle a mode that restricts them from using certain primary weapons (everything except FTs and railguns?) and evolving into favored higher lifeforms. A reward for doing so could be increased karma gain for the duration, progress towards earning related badges, and recognition in the form of an in-game announcement like "X has enabled Hard Mode." I'd like to stress that this should be a voluntary toggle. When enabled, it might lock the player into that mode for 3 minutes or so before it can be disabled in case he changes his mind and/or needs to seriously help his team out. When disabled, the announcement could change to "X has enabled Normal Mode", possibly inviting derision (lol).

    Besides offering a voluntary nerf toggle with incentives, perhaps there could be an incentive for sitting out a game and spectating. Last night, I suggested offering a small amount of karma for uploading Replay recordings, which also applies to spectators. This is more of an indirect incentive, though, and karma is not valued that highly if you play on the server often.

    Instead of balancing around highly skilled players, maybe we should facilitate the improvement of everyone's skill. Encourage highly skilled players to coach others and help improve their gameplay in order to steadily level the playing field. Something like a coaching session that lasts 30 minutes to an hour before captains night begins might be a good idea.

    Otherwise, I agree that an even number of highly skilled players is the only way to make games more balanced in the short term. This applies to all games, though. Even on an auto-balanced, 32-man server, one highly skilled player can dictate the flow of the game and make it somewhat predictable. I've thought about this before and I think the only true solution is to improve everyone's skill in order to level the playing field.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

      Originally posted by Nominus
      "X has enabled Hard Mode."
      If Wyz is willing to do the coding, I think this could be VERY successful. Scoreboard icons, associated badges, text based recognition, more karma.

      Wyz - we've played with hit points and such before in our other... projects. Hell, hard mode could do nothing more than reduce HP/armor of the selected marine to assure two hit deaths at all times. That's hard enough before we even consider going in to reduced damage or movement speed. Limit lifeforms on Aliens, or limit abilities. Hard mode may completely remove the ability to bite as Lerk so you can only support your team. It may make you only be able to bite twice before restocking energy as a Skulk. The options here are limitless, and we could probably even go so far as having different tiers of difficulty.

      I might have just fallen in love. Personally, I think this mix of Dark Souls and NS2 is very attractive, but maybe that's just me.

      It's a lot of code though, just judging from what I've seen Wyz do in the past on stuff we've worked on, so if you guys think it's a good idea, I'm sure he's going to request a large outpouring of support here. Now's the time.

      Mom
      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
      Forever Perplexed

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

        Once you invite high-skilled players to opt-in to "hard mode", you enable others to quietly resent those high-skill players for "opting in" to "easy mode" by forgoing "hard mode".

        Balance will always underwhelm, and winning is overrated. The best response to OP scenario is to rally your efforts against the abnormally powerful foe and hope for the best. Such that I see is typically weak. We can do better, and it can be fun.

        Admins can trump Captains' selections, but we rarely do. But hit us privately after the first several picks if there are selections you think we should fix.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

          Maybe rather than an opt-in this could be a "night". We are very successful with Friday nights. Maybe some sort of Saturday night event would be successful, too, and maybe this is it. Rather than have players opt in, code for everyone.

          Just a thought before we let such an appealing idea go away. I'm really attracted to hard mode, but completely understand and agree with what you're saying.

          Mom
          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
          Forever Perplexed

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

            I personally welcome being facerolled by elite players (Looking at you Nominous) as it is the only way I know to improve my skill. As annoying as it feels at the time, I wouldn't want to give up that stimulus to improve.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

              I would like to put more emphasis on Nom's suggestion of coaching. I think people would find improving their own skill more rewarding than defeating an uber on hard mode.

              I not sure it's necessary, but could there be advantages in coding a "coaching mode"? So that a live game doesn't have to happen, the "coach" could add and remove upgrades as necessary. Drop bots, etc.

              just brainstorming.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

                I would prefer a coaching night over handicaps, but that is hard to coordinate. I don't think handicaps are a good idea ever, and I would think less of TGNS if it were to use them.

                On captains vs regular games. I honestly see so little difference in terms of quality of play between captains games and regulars. The only difference I notice is that we have more primers on captains nights. I know this won't happen, but I would rather scrap captains and spend the saved time playing more games.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Capts vs. Regular Play

                  Originally posted by Florp View Post
                  I personally welcome being facerolled by elite players (Looking at you Nominous) as it is the only way I know to improve my skill. As annoying as it feels at the time, I wouldn't want to give up that stimulus to improve.
                  There is a great deal of satisfaction to have from sneaking up on and just DESTROYING Nominous or other skilled players. I am not as accurate a shot, but I am a pretty good tactician, and am fantastically happy when I have teammates that play off of my strategies. "I'll bite him if you bait him in and make him believe we are all well beyond the wall I'm hiding on." "I'll run out there and draw them out of their hiding. Shoot at my legs."

                  Strong players are not the actual problem. They are a frustration at best. They can be a non-issue because, as I keep emphasizing, this is not counter-strike and engagements are not everything. Nominous goes down quite well if you have 2 or 3 skulks that aren't just running at him like so much cannon fodder.

                  The ACTUAL problem to ruined games is trolls on occasion (thankfully rare) and people that will not play with the team. Lone wolfs that can't watch the field and are constantly poor listeners. This is, after all, why I don't play pubs. I like that we spend so much time making sure people can actually hear the team at the very least. Seems to mitigate some of that.

                  Comment

                  Connect

                  Collapse

                  TeamSpeak 3 Server

                  Collapse

                  Advertisement

                  Collapse

                  Twitter Feed

                  Collapse

                  Working...
                  X