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  • Captains night and match winners

    I'll preface this discussion by saying sorry the wall of text and that this idea most likely only works with what I'd imagine is a fair bit of effort by Wyz. I'll also say that I thoroughly enjoy captains night the way it works currently. I'm not proposing a change but rather throwing a couple ideas out for possible discussion.

    Captains night is clearly structured so that there are a pair of games played per map. Sometimes a team wins both games and they are clearly the winner while other times each team wins one game. I don't know that much weight is currently put behind a team winning both games. I know that when I play I have fun regardless of the outcome but winning is certainly a goal. Bearing that in mind, perhaps the winning team of a match set (i.e. one team wins both games) could be announced in the ready room before the start of the next match set. Doing so might add the fun and the competition level of captains matches. If these wins are not already recorded, perhaps we could start recording a captain's record and have it displayed somewhere on the captains night ready room board (maybe a Charlie Sheen-esque 'I'm winning' counter or icon that matches existing captains night icons in it's varying levels of opaqueness). Perhaps all of the winning team members could even be awarded a small amount of karma.

    An obvious issue with this idea is the oft-occurring 1-1 scenarios in which both teams have won one game. I think the way in which this scenario could be addressed has any number of possible unorthodox NS2 solutions. I think ultimately any of these solutions would have to be quick so that they don't distract from normal game play. If you're on board with the idea thus far, I think it's this tie breaking solution which might be interesting to discuss (and to possibly play at some point).

    An off the cuff idea for a tie breaker would be to see which team could kill a hive the quickest. Each team would get a chance to kill a hive as quickly as possible after spawning. There would be no opposing team with a sandbox type start and a timer. This solution would continue to encourage teamwork and comradery. I had another idea about a modified sh_laps race but this would be limited to maps on which sh_laps are supported.

    TL;DR - How do you feel about ensuring that a match has a clear winner on captains night and the possible tie breakers in 1-1 situations?

  • #2
    The entire whatever needs to happen in LESS than 2 minutes and be entirely automation-driven. This needs to be quick.

    Here's my idea. I'd love to hear others'.

    The instant we normally would have been dumped to RR after the second round, I like the players who lost the second round immediately all spawning in a random tech point as either Marines or Aliens -- these players spawn alive instantly -- while everyone else on the server is thrown to (and made to stay in) spectate. Alltalk is immediately enabled and stays enabled until mapchange.

    An isolated command structure of the opposing faction immediately appears at another, mid-distant tech point.

    /Everyone/ sees the location name of the target command structure for just a second, and then a timer appears which immediately begins ascending from zero with millisecond precision.

    The timer stops ascending only when the team who lost the second round kills the tie-breaker command structure, at which point those who won the second round /immediately/ all spawn to perform the exact same feat while everyone else is forced to (and made to stay in) spectate as the timer descends toward zero. The team who won the second round then performs the same feat as quickly as possible. Whoever performs faster, down to the millisecond, wins the tie breaker.

    Everyone is dropped to Ready Room instantly afterwards, and the mapvote immediately begins.

    In the unlikely event you jerks regularly tie the tie breaker, I'll do more work so that it all frantically loops until someone definitively wins. :)

    I'll not start dev on this right away, as I'd like time for other ideas to surface (maybe a combination of "easier to dev than what Wyz suggested" AND "the funnest idea yet"?).
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      I suspect Aliens would have an unfair advantage over Marines given their superior mobility. So instead of a race to kill the command structure, I would like to suggest a better solution.

      Captains duel. Nothing's more fair than settling this matter like gentlemen. Spawn the Captains and let them settle their differences in 1v1 combat. Give the Marine A3, W3, a shotgun, and a JP. The Alien on the other hand, it should be a Fade with full choices of upgrades. Highlight the Marine for the Fade in order to avoid a situation where both sides are unable find each other on the map. Who's the Marine/Alien is decided by the initial team choice made before the beginning of the Captain's game. Additionally, all talk should be disabled.

      The only flaw I see in this solution is the possibility of the Marine camping in vents such that it becomes very difficult for the Fade to kill its opponent. Perhaps a timer would remedy that, but I'm not sure how it could be integrated into the concept.

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      • #4
        I talked myself out of my 1v1 brainstorming after recalling that the anxiety folks have for volunteering to Captain is already confusingly and unsatifactorily high, and I don't want to do anything to give future potential Captains new performance anxiety wells to draw from. We could tweak the idea such that each team's tie-breaker actor is (instead of the Captain) another player (highest score? best KD across both rounds? whatever...), but 1v1 still excludes the rest of the team from the tie-breaker accomplishment (including the team wasn't design any requirement, per se, but teamwork is awesome).

        FWIW, my idea had both teams acting as the same faction during the tie-breaker challenge. If first team gets randomly spawned as Aliens during first round of tie-breaker, second round for other team would also spawn Aliens, with both groups killing the same chair in the same location -- nothing differs from each team's challenge -- they're identical... one after the other, with everything reset in between.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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        • #5
          A marine vs a fade seems rather unfair given that it usually takes multiple marines to take a fade down. I vote for a marine vs marine shootout. Turn friendly fire on, put them at opposite sides of the map, whoever kills the other wins.
          HaX^

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          • #6
            I wouldn't mind Marine vs Marine. Sounds like fun.

            I thought about champion combat instead of Captain duels, but I realized that would almost certainly be nearly monopolized by the usual suspects on TGNS who often top the scoreboard. We would want variety.

            The main idea behind pitting Captains against each other is to enlarge the Captain's role and according to the spirit of the event. I thought that would be more fun, tense, competitive, and rewarding than a race to the command structure. But Wyz seems to have taken another factor into consideration and I don't strongly disagree.

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            • #7
              After the last round and it becomes tied 1-1 whatever team you are on (marines or aliens) you stay on. Then you all start in the same room with a 10 second countdown and fight it out. This also brings relevance to which team you select as captain in the beginning. Maybe actually making balancing the other captains first pick.

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              • #8
                lol that sounds awesome. and SUPER simple to code. lol.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I like Sargons idea of the captains having a one on one duel being marines. Both starting at the ends of the map put them at 20hp with no upgrades. Need to make it fast and short. Also let the spectators cheer them on.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HaX^ View Post
                    A marine vs a fade seems rather unfair given that it usually takes multiple marines to take a fade down. I vote for a marine vs marine shootout. Turn friendly fire on, put them at opposite sides of the map, whoever kills the other wins.
                    CS:GO knife round
                    I like cheese

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VMAN View Post
                      I like Sargons idea of the captains having a one on one duel being marines. Both starting at the ends of the map put them at 20hp with no upgrades. Need to make it fast and short. Also let the spectators cheer them on.
                      This is great because it's literally just one pistol shot that has to land. Or... one axe hit. 1v1 marines with axes for the tiebreaker? :D

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                      • #12
                        I completely agree that any tie-breaking round needs to be quick, as well as decisive. I'm fan of some of the ideas and am curious how much fun a new style of game-play might be on this server (i.e. marine vs marine), even if it's only for a minute or two. 1v1 marines with an axe and maybe even a grenade could be fun and quick. Perhaps both captains could spawn in the same tech point location with enough time to locate each other before actually starting the round. On the other hand, the idea of a timed hive kill competition seems to be a bit more TGNS-ish as it uses an existing and known TGNS game-ending mechanic. It could still be quick (albeit not as quick as 1v1) and continue to promote teamwork. Regardless, I think I'd be happy trying out any of the aforementioned tie-breaking solutions.

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                        • #13
                          Why not do all three as options? Have each captain pick a number between 1-20 or so and the person running the night picks a number. Whoever is closer gets to pick which challenge they want,team deathmatch as per VMAN's idea, 1v1 as per Sargon's, and command chair race vs. as per Wyz's.

                          Alternatively just always give it to the team pick/spawn captain to help even the balance between that and first pick out.

                          The reason I feel like some sort of pick using all three options would be best is it allows for more strategy. Like say I have a team that isn't going to be able to do the 1v1 in that case I could try and go for the race because I feel that my team's teamwork is higher even if the individual skill isn't as even.

                          Regardless of my idea I feel like we should pick one of the tiebreaker options and then go about tweaking it to ensure balance, challenge, and suspense.

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                          • #14
                            Ah, a man can dream.

                            I'm in favor of a tiebreaker. It needs to be simple. It should create some intrigue, and have some basis in skill.

                            I kind of like having everyone spawn in the same room and last man standing wins. Although... if you ended the game as an onos, do you get to stay onos?

                            Maybe each team spawns as marines and has to kill as many bot lerks as possible. The team that kills the most lerks wins. And the lerks just spawn faster and faster and faster (like tetris). That would help people develop their skills in killing lerks (you can do fades too?).

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