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  • Strategic comments on today's hour game

    I commed another one of those games today that you've all seen from me, where marines get top tech and kill stuff left and right, and cant seem to end the game. It dragged on for at least 50 minutes, with at LEAST 8 separate Onos being killed, and then I had to leave and didn't get to see how it ended. But I thought I'd leave some comments on it. There's 2 separate things that really impacted our ability to win, that I wish I'd have done better.

    --By the late stage of the game, the server was full. But at the beginning it was only 2v1, and I often had to get out of the com chair to help kill stuff in base. At one point I saw a blip on motion tracking come up near marine start, and then stop. I got out and headed over there with my JP/Shotty, and managed to kill a Gorge who had just dropped 6 unbuilt OCs. 70 res down the drain, pretty good right?

    Wrong. By the time I got back to my base, a griefer had joined the server, hopped in the chair, and recycled everything in base, including the res tower. The game would have been over right there, except I had built some backup structures on the opposite side of the map, which helped us hang on a bit longer. Still, this was incredibly frustrating. I'm fairly certain we could have won this game otherwise. =(

    (Ok--honestly, I have no idea what I could do to stop this sort of thing, or even what an admin could do, but I had to mention it. He was quickly kicked by both me and Chiller at the same time, but the damage was done)

    --Ok, heres the one I actually could have done better. In the late game, both sides had res to spare, I had a hive locked down, and we had JPs flying everywhere while the aliens kept pushing our bases with Onos repeatedly. It didn't seem to matter what we killed, because they could just replace it immediately, and we couldn't make any serious pushes without letting the Onoses wipe out our bases. The map was thouroughly OC spammed from the early game with few people, and the JPs were having a hard time pushing, but we were afraid to drop HAs because of all the Onos.

    What I should have done is select a team of 2-3 people, with 1 JP HMG and the rest HA/Shotty, and have them push through the map clearing OCs and RTs. The JP would cover the HA when Onos showed up, and the HA would handle any OCs or Fades. It was critical to kill some RTs to stop the constant flow of Onos, but without HA on the ground to actually hold territory, we could never pull it off. So instead we just sent JPs to their doom repeatedly, rushing OC-filled rooms guarded with Fades like we were idiots. Combined arms = win, all JP = lose.

  • #2
    Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

    Wrong. By the time I got back to my base, a griefer had joined the server, hopped in the chair, and recycled everything in base, including the res tower. The game would have been over right there, except I had built some backup structures on the opposite side of the map, which helped us hang on a bit longer. Still, this was incredibly frustrating. I'm fairly certain we could have won this game otherwise. =(
    Grrr... nothing gets me madder than some guy jumping in and just recycling everything while the comm was doing something.

    I joined in on the last half of this game, it was hard for the rines to get anywhere with all the OCs. Although IMO I think we would have been better to use heavies and have a better chance going against the OCs although the onii were a worry. I got a shottie and JP going around to sneak behind their RT while the OCs firing at me and killed 2 of their RTs.

    We hit smelter pretty hard with that sneak PG but they swarmed all over it.

    Small games > large games usually end in an OC fest even with GLs... I think possibly part of the problem was just trying to maintain 2 bases with a filled and high resource alien team... and eventually it wore us down.
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    • #3
      Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

      The thing i find funny about that match was the fact you said that in 1 vs 1 the alien has the advance, 2 vs 1 the marines do. We started as the 1 vs 1 the second guy joined. It was a good battle, saidly I frove in the middle of it and had to reboot, but I was on the best small games of ns I have played in a while that was fun.

      My stat was this Node in hiveroom -> Hive -> SC around the map + hive 3 -> OC lame the map. It worked well, by the time the marines had taken down my first hive i had 3 sc, and a new hive up.
      Current game name : Lost, Phantom Thief

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      • #4
        Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

        Originally posted by Kerostasis
        Wrong. By the time I got back to my base, a griefer had joined the server, hopped in the chair, and recycled everything in base, including the res tower. The game would have been over right there, except I had built some backup structures on the opposite side of the map, which helped us hang on a bit longer. Still, this was incredibly frustrating. I'm fairly certain we could have won this game otherwise. =(

        (Ok--honestly, I have no idea what I could do to stop this sort of thing, or even what an admin could do, but I had to mention it. He was quickly kicked by both me and Chiller at the same time, but the damage was done)
        Get a full admin any pertinent info. He won't be back, most likely.
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        • #5
          Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

          I'd really have to give his Steam_ID to accomplish anything, and I didn't take note of it. The best I could do would be to get Wyz the info to look through the demo for him, but I don't know if thats even worth the effort given he's probably not coming back anyway. Then again--the "GB" plugin says that all uses of it are logged. Would that record the Steam_ID of the victim?

          The game was NS_Metal, approx 4-5 PM Central time, Tuesday, and maybe 20 min in this guy joined. His name was "w" followed by approximately 9 "e"s, but theyre hard to count when you get that many.

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          • #6
            Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

            I was the person who joined aliens and first made it 2v2. I died many times with unbuilt ocs, I think the only time I may have had around six of them would have been in heating room.

            Aliens won the game completely due to the amount of res we got. By the time the numbers picked up, we had at least half of the nodes, and a few nodes were empty because neither side could hold them. Even if your main base hadn't gotten unfairly recycled, I think we were slowly winning the res war.

            There was never a time when I died with unbuilt ocs, and didn't have the res to go out and do it again. Only for a short time were we a little short on res, because we had gorges building and two onos die and regestate. I still got res faster than I was spending it on structures (I wasn't doing anything really big and elaborate though)

            I would say the game turned much more in our favor when the marines killed one of our two hives, but none of the chambers (8 dcs and two movements). We lost our ability to make mcs, but we had enough of them anyway. Since we were able to immediately redrop the hive, we got sensories back 3 minutes later.

            It was a pretty good game.

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            • #7
              Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

              I'm going to almost agree with you, and say the game ended for us marines 3 minutes after that hive went down, when it went back up again with Sens. At that point it was pretty much lost. However, during those 3 minutes, when you were limited to one hive abilities, we had a great opportunity to come back. As soon as I realized that we weren't going to hold the phase gate, I decided to drop a bunch of JP/Shotties and beacon everyone to marine start, then rush the other hive.

              There would have been little resistance. No umbra, no leap, any Oni you had wouldn't have been able to help, and I think we probably could have gotten it down. And then you'd have had 0 hives and we would have been in good shape.

              Except...half way through, I ran out of money, and realized that the 4 RTs I had at the beginning of that hive attack had shrunk to 2. (Marine start, and the locked down hive). On the one hand, kudos to you guys for working our res so hard. On the other hand, at that exact moment I thought back to the moment when we had to spend 100 res rebuilding marine start after it was sold, and thought, "man that 100 res would be really useful right about now". That would have let me finish the JP drop, and have enough left over for meds and catpacks to support the hive rush. Instead we spent the next 3 minutes trying to recap some res, and by the time we were finished it was too late and you had 2 hives and 3 ups again.

              Also, remember that after Marine Start was sold, it took my entire team 2 minutes of valuable combat time just to rebuild it. We had been trying to push territory at the time. I think it was probably something like 4v3 at the time.

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              • #8
                Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

                Originally posted by Kerostasis
                Also, remember that after Marine Start was sold, it took my entire team 2 minutes of valuable combat time just to rebuild it. We had been trying to push territory at the time. I think it was probably something like 4v3 at the time.
                The player who sold your base has been banned.
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                • #9
                  Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

                  I think perhaps you overestimate the effectiveness of the rush that killed our hive. Many players (I would say at least half at the time, don't remember the numbers) wanted the hive to go down, and didn't help resist. They wanted it rebuilt, to get sensories. I thought this was unwise, and did do my best to keep the hive up. I believe this may have given a false sense of resistlessness (I think I just made a new word).

                  It's the fact that not enough of us wanted to save the hive that also allowed us to hit the res, and much more focus went on the other hive. We figured it would be a likely next target, and I believe had a fade partolling.

                  I do think there would have been a good chance of the other hive going down too. It's a risk I didn't want to take, but ultimately we took anyway.

                  Also something to consider. Recycling does give you res. That 100 res may not have been there either way if the base had not been recycled. It is a shame that it happened, I would have liked to see the game played without that (that guy should be banned), but it's impossible to say if you would have had the res or not.

                  You definitely would have kept more alien focus up there, and longer if the base had not been recycled. It's hard to say what that's worth (it can translate into extra res for aliens, and a res drain for marines to maintain, or a benefit if keeping the aliens away from other targets like rts).

                  Res is what wins those games.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

                    (@Wyz)
                    Thank you.

                    (@Irish)
                    I was surprised myself at how easily that hive died, as it should have been much harder, and I wondered if the aliens might have let it happen intentionally, just like you said. But at 2 Hives, the aliens have a lot of tools to stop us that they don't have anymore with only 1. So I figured that even if you hadn't been trying real hard to save that one, and did try real hard to save the next one, we still had a decent chance of pulling it off.

                    Oh well, we can theorize endlessly, but we'll never really know what could have happened since we didn't get to try. We'll just have to play some more games and try it, huh? =P

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                    • #11
                      Re: Strategic comments on today's hour game

                      Thanks Wyz, I didn't realize you got a post off in there. I take too long composing mine. I wonder what compelles people to do things like that.

                      Keeping hives after losing the advantage of other hives is not something I would want to bet my money on. I think if we had just taken the effort to prove we can repell a shotty (hmgs?) rush, it would have been more demoralizing and possibly made our advantage all the greater.

                      The last thing you want is to let the enemy think they can win the game. That kind of attitude might help them do it.

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