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  • Team Balance

    Team Balancing: It is expected that the teams be kept in balance (even numbers, or with the marines getting the extra person). The rule of thumb is that the person lowest on the scoreboard will be the one to switch, but the team is welcome to choose any player it wishes based on the impact to the team at that moment. Regardless of the process, it should happen swiftly. If the teams are not balanced in an expeditious manner, the administration reserves the right to take any action it deems necessary to enforce team balance.
    I think this bears repeating to the general public.

    I was in a game 20 min ago or so, on the map with biodome and whatnot, in which the teams became unbalanced, and no one made any effort to correct it. On and off we had people in the ready room, but even when no one was in the ready room the teams were unbalanced and stayed that way.

    <player reference removed --pokerface>

    I personally don't think if the teams are uneven for a while, and then someone joins the ready room you can shrug off the fact that they are and were uneven. Waiting for more people to join is not an excuse for keeping the teams imbalanced in my opinion (feel free to disagree with me here if no one else feels that way).

    I don't know what was going on in the team chat of the other side, but I don't think any marine used all chat that game.

    I think if the teams are unbalanced, even if you are not the lowest person, it's partly your responsibility for not switching (Like I said I don't expect commanders to switch).

    One thing in reflection that I could have done better is tell the person who was at the bottom of the marine team specifically to switch. I would suggest to anyone in a similar situation, try that sooner rather than later.

    As you keep telling us Wyz, get these things out when they happen instead of bottling them in until a thread starts. I'm taking time out of playing on the server to say this now. I don't know if this is common. I know when we have more regulars on the balance keeps up, but I don't frequent these mid day games.
    Last edited by Pokerface; 03-24-2006, 06:16 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Team Balance

    It is EVERY member's, supporting or not, duty to enforce the rules. That means, if the other team (who may not have noticed the difference) doesn't say anything, you should. And if no one does anything after that point, you find an admin. Take responsibility, Irish, you'll enjoy the experience more.
    --------

    Zephyr: Besides Wyzcrak and his godly voice; the kind of voice that you will expect to say "Zephyr, I need you to build an ark at Marine Start, with room for two of every structure so that I may turret spam for 40 days and 40 nights" that is.

    Squeak:Sometimes I'm awed by zibs genius. Then I remember he's Canadian and I feel significantly less threatened.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Team Balance

      Originally posted by Irish Pirate
      I personally don't think if the teams are uneven for a while, and then someone joins the ready room you can shrug off the fact that they are and were uneven. Waiting for more people to join is not an excuse for keeping the teams imbalanced in my opinion (feel free to disagree with me here if no one else feels that way).
      I cannot agree more. Far too often I see someone call for the teams to be balanced with no response until "<so and so> is joining the game" pops up and then two or three people from the other team say "<so and so> just joined" or "the teams are fine" after the new player joins the team. If someone joins immediately after a player leaves I would say this is fine - but when it takes 10, 20, 30+ seconds for someone to join it is unacceptable. It is everyone's responsibility to help get the teams balanced (whether it's communicating who should switch, or stepping up and switching yourself) - too many people become passive when this situation arises and expect someone else to take care of it.

      The wait for X number of seconds and say "<so and so> joined, the teams are even" act needs to be dropped, quickly.


      Originally posted by Irish Pirate
      I think if the teams are unbalanced, even if you are not the lowest person, it's partly your responsibility for not switching (Like I said I don't expect commanders to switch).
      With a bit of quick evaluation it's fairly easy to tell who should switch. It might be the guy who just joined, the lowest skulk/light on the scoreboard, Wyzcrak, etc. We're all intelligent people and it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to get someone over to the needy team.

      In my mind, this is a type of teamwork (community teamwork) that is no different than NS specific teamwork, such as welding a teammate after a melee without them having to ask you. It should be among our standards and no one who plays here should be without it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Team Balance

        Read j's post again. He voices my opinion exactly.

        All of it is key, but I'll repeat one sentence, as it's a direct action item for all of us:
        Originally posted by rs_j
        The wait for X number of seconds and say "<so and so> joined, the teams are even" act needs to be dropped, quickly.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Team Balance

          I thought I asked for the bottom person (can't remember who it was) to switch to the other team over voicechat. It may have been another game since I commed about 5 games today but I apologize if I didn't notice it while trying to comm as I honestly can't remember if it was this one. Although if you had issues with what I did or didn't do, I would rather you PM me and let me know instead of creating a thread, but the "a player joined, let him do it" thing needed to be discussed.

          As everyone else here has mentioned, supporting members and regs alike need to make this rule happen, and shouldn't expect the SM to do say something before you do. Thank you for bringing up the issue though irish, as I have seen this scenario happen before :).
          Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
          Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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          • #6
            Re: Team Balance

            Originally posted by Keres
            It is EVERY member's, supporting or not, duty to enforce the rules. That means, if the other team (who may not have noticed the difference) doesn't say anything, you should. And if no one does anything after that point, you find an admin. Take responsibility, Irish, you'll enjoy the experience more.
            Is there a suggested meathod of finding an admin during a game if one is not present on the server?

            Aero, I wasn't trying to single you out, but it was apparent I wasn't getting through to the other team. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that as the commander your team would be listening to you. That has nothing to do with being a SM or not. If you said something thats great. Like I said I can't hear your team's chat.

            The more people start telling someone to switch, if you have found a specific person that needs to switch, the more likely they will switch. If a couple people on the team that is lacking players is saying it, people seem to find it much easier to ignore. What I'm saying is I think all the regulars should have said something. From what was shown on my screen I saw maybe two people other than myself mention it, both on my team.

            I most definitely did ask for someone to switch/the teams to be balanced multiple times. What is it exactly that you and Keres are suggesting I did differently? It will help me do it in the future.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Team Balance

              Originally posted by Irish Pirate
              Is there a suggested meathod of finding an admin during a game if one is not present on the server?
              page_admin might help. Beyond that, there's IM/etc.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Team Balance

                Originally posted by Irish Pirate
                Aero, I wasn't trying to single you out, but it was apparent I wasn't getting through to the other team. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that as the commander your team would be listening to you. That has nothing to do with being a SM or not. If you said something thats great. Like I said I can't hear your team's chat.
                I probably did tell the last on the scoreboard to switch, but half the time their ?'s and don't care and won't say anything. This is very irritating for me especially when I'm trying to comm and pay attention and I really should just gb them for not listening as another solution to evening the teams. Then this repeats itself when the next ? drops down and he's not listening.

                Another option that SMs can use the amx_marine\amx_alien name command to force switch somebody on the onto the other team, but really we shouldn't have to do this if people would just respond when we ask them to switch. I'm getting more apt to use these commands often when its ?'s on the bottom of the scoreboard and they don't switch after asked.
                Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
                Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Team Balance

                  Originally posted by aeroripper
                  I probably did tell the last on the scoreboard to switch, but half the time their ?'s and don't care and won't say anything. This is very irritating for me especially when I'm trying to comm and pay attention and I really should just gb them for not listening as another solution to evening the teams. Then this repeats itself when the next ? drops down and he's not listening.
                  I know it's annoying when I join the server and start surveying people out of the blue, but that is what it TAKES.

                  The ? players -- every... single.... one -- should be politely and firmly tested in their ability to communicate upon the first moment that they've joined your team.

                  Every. Single. One.

                  This goes for all of you. All of us.

                  And if they fail the test, you remove them.

                  Wake people up. Know that you can count on every single player on the server to at least ACKNOWLEDGE that you're addressing them when something makes it necessary for you to do so, be it an attack, team balance, or anything else.
                  Last edited by Wyzcrak; 03-24-2006, 09:54 PM.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Team Balance

                    Originally posted by ----paranoid----
                    The rule needs to be amended to point out that someone joining or in the RR does not count, the teams need to be fix asap when it is brought up, again today, the team were 8 marines 6 aliens, I called that the teams needed to be fixed and what happened, the call was ignored and 8 marines sg rushed the hive against 6 aliens.

                    No one wants to switch when the teams are uneven, but until "WE" as the SM's and Regulars of the server start thinking more about game play and "SPORTSMANSHIP" and less about your own game and the need to win.

                    There is too much selfishness on the server from players, start thinking about "TGNS" and the good games, they do not happen until we start caring more about the game play on the server and less about our own personal gratification. We are supposed to be here to play some "good games"
                    Once again para strikes gold.

                    I'll talk to the admins about amending the rule.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Team Balance

                      Originally posted by Wyzcrak
                      And if they fail the test, you remove them.
                      Corrected.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Team Balance

                        Stricter rules aren't the answer here. By the time it's clear that someone is refusing to switch and can be punished, the damage has been done. IMHO there should be some kind of plugin to manage this. At the very minimum, admins/temp admins should be able to force a team switch that doesn't unbalance the teams; maybe just a "teamfix" command or something that checks for imbalance and automatically switches the lowest player. A more complicated solution would be to implement a 10-15 second timer with a warning that begins when the teams become unbalanced, at the end of which either someone from the ready room is forced in, or if it's empty then the bottom scorer of the other team is switched.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Team Balance

                          Originally posted by Zek
                          Stricter rules aren't the answer here. By the time it's clear that someone is refusing to switch and can be punished, the damage has been done. IMHO there should be some kind of plugin to manage this. At the very minimum, admins/temp admins should be able to force a team switch that doesn't unbalance the teams; maybe just a "teamfix" command or something that checks for imbalance and automatically switches the lowest player. A more complicated solution would be to implement a 10-15 second timer with a warning that begins when the teams become unbalanced, at the end of which either someone from the ready room is forced in, or if it's empty then the bottom scorer of the other team is switched.
                          I agree, and like this idea. In general I am against forcing readyroom people into the game, as there is a decent chance you are just forcing an afk to sit in the game and get in the way instead of out of the game and in the way. You can deal with an afk after they have been forced onto a team though.

                          I don't know how hard it would be to make something that detects and corrects imbalanced teams, but it would definitely be possible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Team Balance

                            I suggested a while back (in game, and thus forgotten) a command which would auto-switch someone based on factors like lifeform/equipment and rescount (for aliens). If there is a situation that warrants the command's use, then we would at least be somewhat confident that the forced team change had minimal impact to the team that lost the player.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Team Balance

                              Originally posted by rs_j
                              I suggested a while back (in game, and thus forgotten) a command which would auto-switch someone based on factors like lifeform/equipment and rescount (for aliens). If there is a situation that warrants the command's use, then we would at least be somewhat confident that the forced team change had minimal impact to the team that lost the player.
                              Well the largest factor should be how long they've been on the team(position on the scoreboard is an approximation of this). It's not fair that someone who's been there longer should have to switch while someone who joined recently stays because he was given an HA or something.

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