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Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

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  • Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

    I was playing NS the other day and I suddenly had a flashback to a year ago, which was roughly the highpoint of my NS career, where we used the Unchained Chambers modification to create a unprecedented amount of tactical variety on the alien team.

    For those who were not around back in the ol' days or just need a reminder, the Unchained system worked as follows.

    All types of chambers could be dropped from the start.
    All of the chamber's special effects would be activated.
    Aliens would be able to choose one upgrade from any of the chambers available.
    HOWEVER
    One upgrade required one hive, Two required two hives, Three required three hives.
    Having multiple types of chambers required more resources to be allocated to hive upgrades.


    ---Noted Advantages---

    Skulks became more popular creatures due to their increased effectiveness, not so much the cannon fodder that they had used to be next to their Fade/Onos cousins.
    Initial diversity of chambers allowed for strategic placement of chambers to best utilize their advantages

    (1 sensory at a key choke point, 1 movement at the middle of the map, 1 defense chamber hidden away in a vent for aid).

    While there may have appeared to be considerable advantages to the aliens, Marines benefitted from not having to deal with as powerful abilities in entities like the Fade (regen, focus, and celerity would no longer typically have their 3 chamber power backup). This balanced the game more toward the use of lower lifeforms in strategic methods rather than depending on the uber-fade of doom to wipe out the enemy.

    As a result...

    More teamwork was generally present, as strategies became more varied than the simple "build the chambers here under the hive until we get the next one" and "who is going fade, do we have a good fade, okay good we have an uber-fade we win". Aliens became much more focused on having resource nodes, as more chambers demanded increased resources, and were able to hold them much more effectively due to their varied abilities combined with teamwork. This made the game much more of a resource war, as the advantages increased spending on the marine side considerably to even the battle. Typically, this meant that games would generally go on for longer periods of time because marines would become more pressured to lock-down hives in the beginning rather than marching around waiting for one to destroy, however the aliens newfound powers would make them a much more unpredictable threat that could become very deadly when working together.

    ---Noted Disadvantages---
    Typical gameplay we are used to it goes down the toilet.
    Lack of teamwork on the aliens can lead to a complete and utter disaster without the uber-fade.
    Overwhelming teamwork may cause aliens to dominate.
    I'm sure there are others, but as of writing this I am so biased I can't remember what they were. Please remind me.

    I'd like to see what people here would think of bringing back this system, as I remember it quite fondly and still think of it as the one thing that really had the most interesting effect on the whole gameplay of NS, for the better.

    -Zephyr
    You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

    You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

    Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

    Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

    We are no clan.
    We are not a single game.
    We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
    We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

  • #2
    Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

    I really enjoyed unchained chambers. I haven't missed it in 3.0. Will it even function on today's server?
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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    • #3
      Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

      I vaguely recall playing the mod on other servers before, I'd be interesting in hearing what others think about it.
      Like the server? Become a regular! TGNS Required Reading
      Answers to every server question? Yes! TGNS FAQ

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      • #4
        Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

        I enjoyed it when it was around. It was a fine solution to 2.0's stale DMS ordering. 3.0 hasn't suffered QUITE so much from that issue, but there are pieces of it there.

        One of the key things about modding the server is that we try not to affect gameplay with what we put on, unless it directly serves our teamplay purposes (such as alien res distribution).

        Presuming that this beast even works still, I'm going to need near-unanimous community support before I consider it seriously.
        [volun2]
        NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
        Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
        <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
        <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

        Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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        • #5
          Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

          So, I seem to be missing something. Instead of only being able to drop 1 type of chamber per hive, the aliens are only able to get 1 upgrade at a time from any chambers built? If that's it, then I'd be open to trying it, but I am somewhat skeptical of something like that not throwing the gameplay too much to the aliens. I mean, a gorge now able to have some form of adrenaline + regen early on in the game, with half his healspray working on him, seems like something that the underarmed early game rines might have even more difficulty with.

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          • #6
            Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

            Although it might be fun, I do think this will result in imbalanced gameplay favouring aliens. It might be worth trying, maybe at first as a togglable feature for SMs a la amx_extraupgrades.
            Cool! Personalized plates! Barclay, Barry, Bert, Bort...come on...Bort?

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            • #7
              Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

              I think considering how upgrades have changed in the latest builds since 3.0f, there's no need for unchained chambers. That was a result of the only real opening chamber being DCs because upgrades costed resources for skulks, which meant they were a risk to get. This made sensory/movement a risk because the only "given" unit is the skulk, the rest can die in a heartbeat and be unreplacable, namely lerks and fades. Without these, it's very difficult if not impossible to win against a teched up marine team. Now this isn't the case, skulks have a much easier time due to the relative ease of getting upgrades and playing a more important role in the game than they did prior to 3.0f.

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              • #8
                Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                Originally posted by Karkianman101
                So, I seem to be missing something. Instead of only being able to drop 1 type of chamber per hive, the aliens are only able to get 1 upgrade at a time from any chambers built?
                You can drop any type of chamber at any time, but you can only get the chamber-specific upgrade for 1 type of chamber per built hive.

                So, for example, if you have one hive up, 2 dcs, 1 mc, and 3 scs, you can get any one level-2 dc, level-1 mc, or level-3 sc upgrade but no more until you get a second hive. The strength of the specific upgrade will increase if more chambers of the appropriate type are dropped.
                Cool! Personalized plates! Barclay, Barry, Bert, Bort...come on...Bort?

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                • #9
                  Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                  In the 2.0 DMS days, a plugin like this was basically the only way to get people to drop anything but DCs first. Now, I really don't see it having that effect. I see games with this plugin going this way.

                  --Aliens start by dropping 3 MCs (like today)
                  --The 2nd Hive starts going up (like today)
                  --At some point while we are waiting for the 2nd hive, when someone happens to have some spare res, the next set of chambers goes up. Lifeforms have a choice of which upgrade to get, but don't have to worry too much about it because they will have both in a minute or so.
                  --The 2nd hive goes up, and the game is again like today.

                  The only real differences in gameplay I think will show up in these 3 areas:
                  --Important chokepoints will become cloaked by early SCs more often, but aliens won't have to give up their MCs to do it.
                  --Aliens under a hive lockdown will eventually get 3x all chambers anyway, making them more powerful even if each alien can only grab one upgrade
                  --Aliens who have several hives and several upgrades, and then lose a hive, are less powerful now that they can't utilitize all their upgrades together. However, this only applies to aliens who die and respawn after the hive dies.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                    I agree with TheAdj - This does (at least in theory) tip the scales towards the aliens. However, in practice, unchained chambers weren't used for upgrades. It was used more often to drop a single chamber in an interesting spot rather than all 3 of each chamber - generally, the aliens used that res on other structures and life forms like they do now.

                    Even though I think it'll work in favor of the aliens, this was a really cool mod that I'd at least like to try out for a while in this version of NS. It would certainly cause a change in strategies for a while, which have stagnated a bit recently.

                    Maybe this could get me away from Oblivion and my almost nightly Starcraft LAN party.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                      Originally posted by Yoshi MCF
                      Maybe this could get me away from Oblivion and my almost nightly Starcraft LAN party.
                      My god...the time space distortion caused by Oblivion's massive time consumption has sent Yoshi back to 1997...make sure you tell everyone to invest in dot com startups...

                      Anyway, yes I can obviously see why people would be a little skeptical of turning the game into the aliens favor. But the way I've always seen it happen is that the Marines lose for a little while and then find away to adapt (OMGDARWINPUN) their strategies to the new situation. The very structure of the marine team has always allowed for adaptation and improvisation...the main weakness for the marine team has always been in their failure to vary their techniques.

                      Plus as the chambers themselves become increasingly valuable to the aliens, chambers are worth quite a penny after all, they have to trade off things like faster higher lifeforms and resource towers to create an effective chamber system. People are skeptical of it's effects on combat for good reason but are ignoring the obvious effects of resources drained for chambers, placing aliens in a much more defensive, but often highly effective, posture than before.

                      Marines will find themselves just as concerned with clearing a sensory net, a defense chamber cluster, or a movement energy station as they are at aiming for the nodes.

                      We are talking about adding something like an additional 10-20 minutes to every game because aliens have a better defensive organization, while of course losing some of their major offensive capabilities due to resource drain.

                      To name some of the disadvantages of this system: Hives will go up slower, resource towers will be more precious, higher lifeforms will appear later or risk being killed easily, gorges will be at insane risk.

                      Oh and remember, MDS is still very much so possible with this as well. Just be prepared to find out that your second hive has a real value, it's not just some lame thing you need to go through with to get a new chamber upgrade. I never liked how just because the hive was up for .345 seconds, the alien team now has two upgrades at it's disposal instead of one.

                      In short:
                      This system has many disadvantages as well as advantages for the alien team.
                      -Zephyr
                      You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

                      You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

                      Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

                      Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

                      We are no clan.
                      We are not a single game.
                      We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
                      We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                        This was overlooked.
                        Originally posted by Wyzcrak
                        Will it even function on today's server?
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                          Who knows, Im willing to give it a try. I loved unchain chambers.
                          USAR

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                          • #14
                            Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                            Assuming it works,
                            I wouldn't mind playing it a few weekend nights for a month to see how we like it. I believe BF2 does that with their tacmod running it during a certain time in the week.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bring Back the Unchained Chambers?

                              Originally posted by Zephyr
                              My god...the time space distortion caused by Oblivion's massive time consumption has sent Yoshi back to 1997.
                              QFT.
                              My apologies if I start calling skulks, gorges, lerks, and onos: zerglings, drones, mutalisks, and ultralisks.

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