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Please qualify the "f4 rule"

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  • Please qualify the "f4 rule"

    So... Its the old argument. One I have seen harped on, from both sides, far too many times. The admins maintain you should never f4, and the players maintain that it isnt worth it to watch the enemy team take their sweet time to kill yours. It mostly comes down to stacking, which, I know, is part of the game - and it goes both ways... one team gets all the compitant players and the other team gets ... well the other team dosent.

    When it hits the 5 minute mark: your team has one rt (and its not the hive node b/c a ninja snuck into the hive and had the freetime to knife it down) - you just spent the remainder of your res dropping the third chamber - the highest life form is a single lerk, no one has faded - at the 8 minute mark: the second hive was just shotgunned down b/c the marines had time to build a pg, tf, multiple turrets, armory and drop mines in the hive - your team still only has one rt (and now it is the hive rt, but your team lost the other rt, b/c you were too busy building the hive rt to help defend the non hive rt)... sigh

    I have never liked communicating in text - b/c this probably sounds like I am ranting - please do not take it that way, I am not attempting, trying, or hoping to rant. I am quoting from personal experience to better ensanguinate my point of veiw, and humbly asking for someone better than myself in the ways of NS (in light of the above example) to please explain the logic (or at least this servers reasoning behind the rule) as to why any calm, sane, resonable person wouldnt/shouldnt f4 and hope to inspire others to follow, in the hope that a new (and perhaps better) game may be in the nearer future.


    Please no spam on this thread guys - just honest and CALM discussion.
    Do Scottish androids dream of electric sheep?


    Sis - Boom - Bah - Sis - Boom - Bah - Sis - Boom - Bah


    The sound of exploding sheep...

  • #2
    Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

    If it's an old arguement, then this is already settled, no?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

      Wolf, I know you and TG are still getting to know each other, but Mateo is right. This is rather settled.

      From Tactical Wiki:
      F4/rejoin: F4 was designed to allow players to leave a team; any other use of the command during a game is out of bounds. It's a departure from the playing style that we promote on the server, and you'll be at the mercy of whichever admin is present should you choose to abuse the F4 key.

      F4/giveup: Don't F4 at the end of rounds to sit in the readyroom while the match finishes. It's considered disrespectful (your intent is not relevant).
      Bottom line: don't F4 unless you're switching teams. If we need to help people understand the why of this, I'd be happy to help. Regardless, that's the rule.

      Having resumed my admin responsibilities, I will be enforcing this quite plainly, and with ample warnings to those who find it necessary to F4 outside of the above-quoted allowances. That includes folks who F4 even after the "so and so has won the game" text hits our screens. The letter of the rule talks about "leaving a team" and "until the match is over," but I'll be enforcing the letter, which is that you don't leave your own team unless in an effort to join the other.
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      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

        I was not suggesting that I will, or have - I was asking for 'why'... no challange to the rule intended - I am just a 'need to know why in order to feel comfortable doing it 'sort of guy. Helps when someone starts suggesting it to end a game- I then have more to say than a quote from the rule book.
        Do Scottish androids dream of electric sheep?


        Sis - Boom - Bah - Sis - Boom - Bah - Sis - Boom - Bah


        The sound of exploding sheep...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

          I understand. That last post is there for anyone who needs ... simpler.. direction.

          I'll write something up. I think I've got something old from the admin forum.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

            I can't find what I've said on it before.

            Here's a short version: beyond the stale "win at all costs," the other team only has one objective per the design of the game: prevent the other team from spawning. Again, save the self-defeating "stop playing the game," ensuring the destruction of the IPs is the only way that happens.

            Essentially, I break the game by F4ing to the readyroom.

            Frankly, I like the compromise that's been accepted by some of our regulars. Leave our base as it is, but ease up on the offense. The other team gets the satisfaction of destroying that which they've spent the entire game fighting for access to, and I get a speedy end-game. Yeah, the opposition might know I'm easing up on the offense (which might hurt their feelings), but that's a problem I can't solve without dragging out the game.
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

              On pub servers it seems like 75% of the games end due to f4ing and (I think anyway) it wouldn't send a good message to people if it was like that here. Maturity is something seldom encountered in pub servers, but we like to maintain it here. People should recognize that you are trading less than 30 seconds of your life in most cases (though it can feel like a long time when playing a game) to offer your opponents the courtesy of finishing the game.

              Many people find it much less satesfying to win due to the enemy f4ing. I know I do. It keeps the game from reaching a slightly more definite conclusion. Would you wish this on someone else?

              Show your opponents you trust them by allowing them the chance to destroy your hive (or ips). It should not be too much of a problem on this server. In late game one or two people dedicated to finishing off the enemy can ususally do it in 30 seconds or less despite a number of people not helping.

              It's also very similar to rage quitting, but without the satesfaction of getting them to remove themselves from the server without admin intervention.

              Just quote the primer at them, something about respect and maturity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

                If you want the game to end quickly, there are a number of easy ways to do it without F4ing.

                --Have all the aliens sit on top of the hive, until the marines come in and kill it
                --As marines, simply stop spending money (no beacons, no welders, no nothing)
                --Have your entire team mass together to attack some irrelevant point on the map, allowing the other team free access to your base (my personal favorite)

                Any of these methods still allows the winning team the satisfaction of marching into your hive/marine start, and crushing the remaining buildings. When you F4, the other players are carefully executing some plan when all of a sudden they hear the end game chime, and wind up back in the ready room for no good reason. Its a very bad feeling, on both sides.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

                  Originally posted by Kerostasis
                  When you F4, the other players are carefully executing some plan when all of a sudden they hear the end game chime, and wind up back in the ready room for no good reason. Its a very bad feeling, on both sides.
                  Actually no chime at all, it just fades to black.

                  I like the last ditch full on hive rush by marines when the base is being destoryed. Every so often the marines succeed at killing a hive even though thier base is gone and they have no where to go from there. Success usually comes from aliens realizing they don't need the hive if they finish off marine start.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

                    I'm not referring to the "ping of death", I'm reffering to that short (2-3 seconds) orchestral hum that plays when the game ends. I guess "Chime" wasn't the best word for it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

                      Ah yes, the sound that goes along with the blackness, kind of like a violin playing a couple notes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

                        Path:
                        C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\(yourSTEAMlogin)\half-life\ns\sound\hud

                        Files:
                        you_lose.wav
                        you_win.wav

                        You know, I never realized they were different sounds till I looked them up? Its slightly different for winning and losing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

                          I would rather have the team do something fun to speed up the game end like a welder rush or all pile on the comm chair with welders rather than let the end game fighting drag on for 10 minutes. Think of a creative way to end the game.

                          One time I lined up all my marines in a straight line welding eachother as a fade killed all of them starting with the first guy all the way to the back, it was pretty funny.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Please qualify the "f4 rule"

                            We all play the game, and the theory is that we all play to win. Sometimes, we may take odd tactics with low percentages of success, but the end result for which we're hoping is still to win the game. Anything less would be poor sportsmanship; your team would certainly not care to have someone actively working against them in their own ranks.

                            When a player exits the game to the readyroom before the game's natural conclusion, he violates the spirit of the game on two levels.

                            The team of which he was a member is now without a player who might have been productive towards a winning push. The reason they are without this player is due to a selfish take on the inevitability of the game's outcome, and the belief that they are above the ideals of the team.

                            The opposing team is now not in a position to win the game (the goal of the team). When a player from the other team puts their personal views on the game above those of the other players on the server, the opposing team doesn't get a victory; they get to fulfill the prophecy of the exiting player.

                            In one selfish move, a player can completely ruin the sportsmanship of the game by removing the overarching goal of "winning".

                            At TacticalGamer, team comes first, individuals a distant second (if that high). This is why we disallow people who exit to the readyroom early; the blatant disrespect that it shows for each and every other player on the server.
                            [volun2]
                            NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                            Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Please qualify the &quot;f4 rule&quot;

                              F4ing is not allowed because it's disrespectful. That's pretty much all there is to it. The team that put you in that hopeless position deserves the satisfaction of winning the game, and depriving them of it because you don't like losing is selfish and rude. Sure it saves time, but NS is more than just an exercise in squeezing as many games into as short a period of time as possible. You lost fair and square, and on this server you are expected to accept that with dignity. That goes double if you dug your own grave with a strategy that was unlikely to succeed; how dumb would it be if you could organize a gorge rush or something and then bypass all the risk by F4ing immediately if it fails?

                              If the game is hopeless and you want it to end, stop fighting back. Just run laps around your hive or something. Even if the marines are taking their time capping every node on the map and setting up an HA rush or something, that won't take longer than a couple minutes if you don't interfere. The more of a fight you put up, the more you force the marine team to take precautions to make sure they don't lose their lead.

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