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  • Pseudo Reserve Slots

    I've noticed more and more frequently that during the day the server is normally always at 0, even with mostly question marks on the server.

    I'm assuming that this is true because when a registered member joins, it takes one of these slots away. But if the server is full with 19 people, and 3 of them are regulars, are those reserve slots all taken? I guess I'm asking how many registered members have to be on at one time with the rest of the server being question marks to take up all 3, or however many, pseudo reserve slots? IE: If me, Pal, and blu knight are on, and the rest of the server is question marks, will there be no reserve slots?

    -Mom
    Yer Mom /O>

    To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

  • #2
    Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

    I personally think it should be changed so the server can fill up with regulars faster, but the idea of it protecting two or so questionmarks is good.
    remi.D

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    • #3
      Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

      Originally posted by Yer Mom View Post
      If me, Pal, and blu knight are on, and the rest of the server is question marks, will there be no reserve slots?
      If three registered non-SMs with 5000 points are on the server, the number at the end of the hostname will always be zero.
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

        Yeah, that's the thing I don't like. It seems like it should be determined not by the amount of regulars, but by the amount of non regs. That way we don't end up having only 3 regulars and have all the other slots filled by non regs when the regs are trying to join. :/
        It makes it harder for the people with that many points to have good games because if they try to (and do) fill up the server, they are holding one of those slots.

        (I mean I know that the number of slots is determined by the number of ?'s, but I don't think the number of 5000 point men on the server should be a factor.)

        I've noticed more and more frequently that during the day the server is normally always at 0, even with mostly question marks on the server
        This is precisely what I am talking about with the regulars trying to fill the server, but having it fill with ?'s, and still having the number be 0.
        remi.D

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        • #5
          Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

          Okay, that's what I was understanding. I as well think that the server should be able to fill with regulars, but I also don't like the idea of kicking every question mark just to fill the server with regulars. I don't really think that we should change the number from 3 to whatever, but I think that as long as there is a question mark in play, a regular with 5000 points should be able to join.

          Maybe the answer lies within the points, and not within the question marks. It's extremely easy to be concidered a regular by only needing 5000 points, concidering that I'm upwards of 45 thousand. Most regulars should be, unless they have recently purchased a tagline or whatever. I think maybe we should change the number of points needed for the pseudo reserve slots. Possibly rework the plugin to, "If there are 3 registered members with 5000 points on the server, then x player can join if he is registered and has x thousand points (I figure upwards of 15000, or higher) provided there is a question mark to kick.

          I'm sure Wyz isn't interested in reworking the plugin, but I think it may prove to keep more regulars in game.

          I know we're not talking about much of a problem, concidering that the most time anyone would have to wait to join is 30 minutes, because we rarely see games longer than 30 minutes, but I'm only offering a solution to get more regulars in the server, if the server is full.

          Thoughts?

          -Mom
          Yer Mom /O>

          To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

            What you just said seems pretty scrambled. The problem is not with the number of points. If you have 5k points, it means you are a regular. This shouldn't be upped.
            The problem is just that the psuedo-reservation is counting the regulars with over 5k on the server and if that number is lower than ?'s divided by 3, there is a slot available. It should just count the number of ?'s. The thing is, games with the ?'s outnumbering the regs by 3 to 1 are not fun games, they are painful and annoying. The psuedo slots practically forces a high number of ?'s while you're trying to fill up the server.
            I'm not saying we should be able to kick every ?, but we should be able to get more regs on the server if they want to join.
            remi.D

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

              What if...and I'm just brainstorming here...we counted based on the number of Non-Regs instead of the number of Regs?

              That is, if a pointman is trying to join, the server looks at the total number of Non-Reg players, and if there are more than 3, it kicks one. Once there are only 3 new players left, it won't kick to make room for Regs, only for SMs.

              So, the "slot number" at the end of the host name would be "number of non-registered players minus 3". That might help acheive the ratio of regulars to new blood that we're looking for.

              (It doesn't have to be "3", it could be adjusted to any other number, thats just the one we've always used.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                Let me throw this out there:

                A supporting member can boot off a regular with ease and take a spot.

                A regular is a regular because they play on TGNS frequently.

                If the regular is not a supporting member, why would we want to kick off non-regulars (new players) that could potentially become regulars and even better, become supporting members, to keep those people happy that play on TGNS often but don't help support the server and community in the first place?
                Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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                • #9
                  Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                  Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                  What if...and I'm just brainstorming here...we counted based on the number of Non-Regs instead of the number of Regs?
                  The reason for the current setup is to limit the privileges of non-SM regulars. It used to be that a non-SM player with just a few accumulated points could kick any ?'d player and have near unrestricted access to the server. It was decided that to provide a bigger incentive to buy a supporting membership we would make some cutbacks.

                  This was an alternative to entirely removing the non-SMs ability to join a full server.


                  Is there a perceived problem with the system, or are people just looking for more hand outs?
                  Steam Community: | |

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                  • #10
                    Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                    Originally posted by Apophis View Post
                    Let me throw this out there:

                    A supporting member can boot off a regular with ease and take a spot.

                    A regular is a regular because they play on TGNS frequently.

                    If the regular is not a supporting member, why would we want to kick off non-regulars (new players) that could potentially become regulars and even better, become supporting members, to keep those people happy that play on TGNS often but don't help support the server and community in the first place?
                    Quite... the point of the present system is to get a healthy balance of regular players and new blood infusions, because without at least SOME new players coming onboard, we stagnate (not just financially, but more figuratively as well).
                    [volun2]
                    NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                    Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                    <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                    <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                    Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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                    • #11
                      Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                      Originally posted by blu.knight View Post
                      the psuedo-reservation is counting the regulars with over 5k on the server and if that number is lower than ?'s divided by 3, there is a slot available.
                      This is not correct. I don't have time to explain it properly atm.

                      Poker summed up the following nicely, so ignore it unless you want a longer version.
                      Originally posted by Apophis View Post
                      A supporting member can boot off a regular with ease and take a spot.
                      If strangers eventually becoming SMs was anything other than the exception, the server would be full with SMs every night.

                      The answer to your question is two-fold:

                      a) moreso than any other game TG hosts, it's critical to a regular's ability to enjoy the game that each and every teammate himself be educated, both in the game and how we play it. The practical truth is that an entire game's efforts can be wrecked by one player faster than he can be educated (good guy) or removed (bad guy). Yes, we help new players, but every moment that we spend trying to turn a stranger into a regular (most of that cost comes without sufficient benefit, due to the turnover rate of a public server -- that is, TGNS regulars are special and rare, compared to the game's playerbase at large, as most players move from server to server, by nature) is a moment we could be spending with an already knowledgeable and established regular. So there has to be balance between planting the trees and enjoying the fruit.

                      So, we take our strangers in controlled moderation, for good reason.

                      b) The regulars which do become SMs, arguably moreso than any other title, do so contingent on the server's excellent gameplay. That gameplay (not the humans, but the gameplay itself) is threatened if you don't properly manage the flow of strangers (see (a)). Indeed, it is the threat of that very flow (of strangers) that has motivated this thread (not handouts, I'll say).

                      Originally posted by Apophis View Post
                      If the regular is not a supporting member, why would we want to kick off non-regulars (new players) that could potentially become regulars and even better, become supporting members, to keep those people happy that play on TGNS often but don't help support the server and community in the first place?
                      So, to answer your question, the quality gameplay that most strangers typically (yes, there are glorious exceptions) threaten is the greatest asset we have in our effort to acquire more SMs.

                      Originally posted by kormendi View Post
                      Is there a perceived problem with the system, or are people just looking for more hand outs?
                      Handouts won't happen for the sake of handouts. If it seems that the mass of strangers is threatening a new player's likelihood to consider his ability to stay on the server worth the cost of a subscription, I could see the number being raised. That is, after all, why the number is set as it is today.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                        Originally posted by kormendi View Post
                        Is there a perceived problem with the system, or are people just looking for more hand outs?
                        The problem that I keep having is I join the server early on and have a lot of crappy games full of ? people, and judging my mom posting this, this is at a time when there are some regs that want to join which would help make the game more fun since they actually know what they are doing.
                        remi.D

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                          From the point of view of an SM, I would also like to argue that this is not just a "hand-out". When I see more than about 5 ?s on the server, I don't expect a good game, and I don't expect the server to feel like TG. Sure, I try to encourage communication and teamwork, but I also know that the new people on the server aren't getting an accurate representation of what the server is really like when it's full of regs.

                          As such, if there are regs trying to join when there are more than 5 ?s (obviously, the number is open to debate), I think allowing them to join will improve the gameplay and hence make a better impression on the smaller number of ?s still on the server, allowing them a glimpse of why they should become a regular (and maybe someday an SM).

                          Edit: In case this wasn't clear, I'm agreeing with Kero's idea of basing it on the number of non-regs still present.
                          Last edited by Agamemnon; 08-17-2006, 05:41 PM. Reason: clarification

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                          • #14
                            Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                            Despite my jumbled ideas, Agamemnon said with a few words, what I intended to say with many. I don't judge any of the things I am given in TGNS as a hand-out. Like I said above, the longest time anyone will have to wait to join the server is 30 minutes, so I can go wash dishes, or come and write more jumbled garbage on here while I wait.

                            Tbh, I don't like the idea of people viewing NS as a source of income for TG. Sure, we bring in some of it, but some people can't afford to pay for SMs, yet they still make up 70-80% of what makes TGNS such a great place. I know the server would, on some nights, fill completely with SM's, but those nights are very seldom. I myself have yet to see more than 10 SM's on our 16 player server in one sitting.

                            NS itself is designed around the players, not around the game. One skulk chewing on the old comm-chair can lose a hive for aliens, and one marine camping in a vent can lose a seige for marines. I tend to think myself that most of us come back for each other, not for the game itself. We've been playing this game for years now, I honestly doubt we can see things today that we didn't see yesterday.

                            Then comes the people that haven't played the game for 4 years, and are brand new. Those people have to be taught, and the best way to teach them is while most of the server is full of regulars. Concider a new comer as a blank spot in a team. As long as someone has a question mark, the team of regulars is going to look at them as someone who doesn't know what they're doing. It's judgemental, I know, but it's also fact.

                            Now, the question we have to ask ourselves is: Would we rather have two ?'s on a team, or one ? and one regular?

                            The only truth we can concider for this thread is for one question mark, we need one regular, to teach the question mark how to play. So that takes two people off of every team, given there is atleast one question mark on a team.

                            Edit*- In most of this text, I am assuming that question marks are new comers to the game, not just the server. Btw, the only reason I brought this thread up is because the only time I ever see a slot available for a pseudo-reserve person to join the game is when the game isn't full. In fact, I haven't seen a slot for pointsmen to join in about two weeks. I don't see much of a point to even having the plugin if the only use for it is when the server already has slots available for players.

                            -Mom
                            Last edited by Yer Mom; 08-17-2006, 07:37 PM. Reason: Clarification
                            Yer Mom /O>

                            To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Pseudo Reserve Slots

                              It seems to me there are really two different questions here.

                              1--What distribution of Regulars (not SM) vs Non-Regulars do we want on the server?

                              2--How do we tune the plugin to acheive that?

                              These questions need separate answers. For the first question, we have two competing tensions--we need new Non-Regs in the hope that they will become contributing Regs, and maybe even SMs. On the other hand, as pointed out above, the more Non-Regs that are present in a game, the less quality we can usually expect out of that game. And the quality of the games is what draws people to become Regs and SMs. Then finally, the True Reserved Slot given to SMs ought to mean something, to create an incentive for Regs to become SMs. Ideally, I'd say we want about 3-4 new players at a time, although others may disagree. (Obviously, during non-peak hours anyone is free to join.)

                              2nd, how do we go about acheiving that player ratio? The current plugin counts the number of non-SM regs. Once we reach 3 regs, the server stops handing out Pseudo Reserve Slots. I suggest that it would be more effective to count the number of Non-Regs, instead of the number of Regs. The numbers are open for fine tuning either way, but our goals can be more precisely controlled by counting Non-Regs instead of Regs.

                              For any given game, you can select a number for one system that gives identical results to a given number from the other system. The biggest difference comes when the number of SMs on the server changes. For example, under the current system, a game with no SMs will often have many more non-Regs than Regs, as the Regs quickly lose their ability to slot kick non-Regs. However, in a game with a high count of Regs (during captains, for instance), the few non-SM slots left will almost always go to Regs over non-Regs.

                              Counting the other way, the opposite would be true. In a high-SM situation, a few non-Regs would still be immune to Reg kicking. But in a situation with few SMs, the Regs would have plenty of slots available to join, and the non-Regs would be more vulnerable.

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