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  • NS Source Ideas

    I know we're not a dev team, but I'd like to see some SERIOUS ideas on what NS Source should include. This thread has been opened on the weary chance that the dev team does come through our NS forums occasionally, and they do read what we have to think about their game.

    Let's let them have some good ideas here if'n they do come a'knocken.

    Yer Mom /O>

    To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

  • #2
    Re: NS Source Ideas

    The type of ideas that can be suggested has a lot to do with the scope of the project. NS:Source can be conceived of as a whole new game deserving the title of NS2, or mostly as a Port of NS1 that just takes advantage of some new features of the new engine.

    As NS2, the possibilities are literally endless. One thing that comes to mind is that NS1 has never been able to handle outdoors environments. This is partly due to engine limitations, as HL1 is poor for rendering large outdoor environments, and partly due to the way the alien lifeforms are set up, such that most lifeforms become nearly useless outside.

    NS2 wouldn't necessarily have these handicaps. The HL2 engine is much better able to handle outdoors areas to begin with, and NS2 could be designed in a way that could allow outdoors combat. However, NS1 Ported probably couldn't do that, because even though the engine limitations are gone, the current design limitations still make it very hard to balance. NS1:Source would still very much revolve around indoors combat.

    Another thing to keep in mind is the possibility of a Flamethrower. The NS Dev team has always claimed they wanted to add a Flamethrower to the marine arsenal, but the HL1 engine just couldn't handle what they wanted out of it. Perhaps the HL2 engine could pull it off.

    (The criteria set forth was that any flamethrower had to A) be Volumetric, B) Look good, and C) Not kill framerates. Reports from people who tried it said you could get any two, but not all three, with a HL1 flamethrower.)


    • #3
      Re: NS Source Ideas

      a cow bell for the onos
      we gotta have more cow bell

      also we need the dune buggy
      Last edited by Dead_Meat; 08-24-2006, 08:15 AM. Reason: forgot about the dune buggies


      • #4
        Re: NS Source Ideas

        Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
        Another thing to keep in mind is the possibility of a Flamethrower. The NS Dev team has always claimed they wanted to add a Flamethrower to the marine arsenal, but the HL1 engine just couldn't handle what they wanted out of it. Perhaps the HL2 engine could pull it off.

        (The criteria set forth was that any flamethrower had to A) be Volumetric, B) Look good, and C) Not kill framerates. Reports from people who tried it said you could get any two, but not all three, with a HL1 flamethrower.)
        I was going to mention this. Look at the TFC flamethrower, for example. It literally "throws" a sprite of a flame. It's disgusting.

        I'd like to see some weapons (like the flamethrower) that were made to take down structures. When was the last time you heard of anyone in RL or fiction shoot down a building with any of the NS weapons (even the GL)?

        I'd also like to see some marine weapons that are made to be longer distance. Right now, the lmg, sg, and hmg all feel like medium range weapons - too inaccurate at range. Some type of massive damage, slow-firing sniper rifle (with a scope) would really help out in outdoor environments.

        As for aliens, they'd also need something to counter outdoor environments. Perhaps a second flyer that focused more on physical combat and less on support? Or something like a battle gorge with distance weapons that actually hit and do significant damage?

        Lastly, if anyone gets a gravity gun in NS2, it should be the aliens. The maps should be created to make extensive use of this. Ambushes that create avalanches and throwing the marines' own turrets at them would be interesting.


        • #5
          Re: NS Source Ideas

          My desires for NS:S are pretty much purely graphical. I'm very happy with the gameplay thats been refined over the past few years, so not much of that needs to change. However, I'd love to see some interesting graphical improvements, such as when marines spawn a structure, we see a transporter beam a-la-star trek that drops it down, or alternatively, the structure starts out as a hulk of metal on the floor, and as the rines build it, it takes shape and eventually activates. Same thing with alien structures, when a gorge drops a structure, perhaps it should be in coccoon form (the gorge builder arms do kinda look like spider arms that weave webs) and when its done building, the chrysalis falls away. Also, with gestating lifeforms, the eggs grow to the actual size of the gotta admit is kinda odd watching an onos pop out of a skulk-sized egg...and along with that, perhaps leaving the egg "shells" on the ground after a lifeform gestates.
          As far as gameplay, one thing i'd love to see that would add a dimension to the game is non-static hive placement. Give the gorge a new ability that allows it to spray the green creepy-crawly stuff (i forget what its called...basically the alien infestation stuff you see on the walls at hives) on the walls, and once an area is sufficiently covered, it allows the gorge to drop a hive there. This would allow for much more ineteresting and tactical games. Think about what a game would be like on origin if the aliens could drop a hive in double, or on veil on either side of double, where theres only one way in and out. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game.
          Running with that also comes the idea of moveable hives. Say you dont like your initial hive placement, so you detach the hive and move it, which is a slow process and while in transit, nothing can spawn. Another interesting concept i think.


          • #6
            Re: NS Source Ideas

            for the long range weapon idea, I think the idea behind having a rail gun might be sweet, but only if the reload time is sufficient to offset the amazing amount of damage it would probably do. i think such a gun should be able to do like 100 damage per shot, so it could easily take out a skulk or a hurt lerk or gorge, but would provide the sort of desperate efforst that could bring down an onos from a strategic position in a real crunch spot.

            also i hope that there should be severl new structures the likes of which i have thought about.

            For aliens:

            Collectign spikes - about 3 or 4 foot tall impalement spikes that would give double res for every kill within a five foot vicinity (cost 5 res)

            "snark" chambers- small chambers that housed defnsive rodentlike creatures that could do a minimal aount of damage but would provide considerable noise for an alarm. (cost 15 res)

            Alien res node- i think that the game's design would benefit from having an alien verison of the res node spot, this would be super useful in the creation of alien "homeworld" maps which i think would bee TIGHT


            Advanced turret- would be a normal defense turret but would do twice the damage, but there would also be a limit to two of such turrets per TF and the tf would have to be advanced (cost 20 res)

            Heavy machine gun turret- a heavy automatic stationary gun that could be controlled by marines using the use key, a throwback to certain parts of the half life series, these guys could be super useful in large scale base last stands or controlling a specific are of the map with hgih alien traffic. It is however balanced out by a super low reload, les aiming agility and the need for a marine to man it. (cost 25 res)

            Ethereal interference arrays - a small weak tower (obs sized/strengthed) that would generate an ethereal resonance shock in order to disbable an alien's ability to redeem. (cost 35 res) would need to be researched after motion tracking and phase tech and would cost (35 to research)

            other ides:
            marine's with different armor levels should render differently
            -lvl one, just a flack jacket front and back
            -lvl two, flakc jacket shoulder pads and light lower boddy pads
            -lvl three, full armor padding on torso arms and legs

            this would make it easier to identify which armor a marine has and itd look really sweet.

            we should have some sweet objective based maps where per say marines have to save civillains who have been welded into a secure area on the far side of the map and escort them to marine start.

            or that there is a "super-chamber" on a critical circuit in the ship that needs to be taken down using specialty explosives

            these are both ideas for much larger maps where i think they would be better suited, in smaller maps objectives are kind of stupid.
            additionally also objectives would be seen as secondary and would be rewarded with extra res.

            One last thing, i think we need to have more dramatic elements in our maps. The other day i drew up a sweet co map that was two ships connected to eachother, one smaller one housed the hive, the larger one housed the marines and were connected by an umbilical and two vent shafts
            I also drew in lots of items that sort of developed a sort of pretense of what had happened on the map, a bunch of overturnned turrets deployed in the hallway and bunch of dead guys behind a overturnned blockade on the bridge. I think Natrual selection could really benefit from the addition of non-usable structures that would add a sort of dramamtic impact to one's surroundings.
            Sort of like that broken res node in that one co-map, i think more stuff like thatd be sweet, cuase i mean NS is about all these future battles with the aliens once they show up, why shouldnt be do a little more to develope some of the story backround for these maps.
            This could also be really sweet if they have like a campaign mode as single player for NS:S since its gonna cost some money.

            actually one other last thing, i think that NS:S should have a campaign system/battle system similar to that of the map choosing part of Star Wars battlefront and other such games that would allow players to choose wether they wanted to play Classic NS in source (The First Kahraa-Interplanetary Allience war) or the updated version with all its new features (The Second Kahraa-Interplanetary Alliance war) and maybe even a refined Marine vs Marine campaign/map-set (The Xeres 5 Insurrection, or somehting to that effect)

            also there should be a cool real time startegy version for playing as commander, the world needs more good commanders

            anyways i gtg to class, chew on dat
            Last edited by sUZY dERKINS; 08-24-2006, 01:41 PM.


            • #7
              Re: NS Source Ideas

              Running with that also comes the idea of moveable hives. Say you dont like your initial hive placement, so you detach the hive and move it, which is a slow process and while in transit, nothing can spawn. Another interesting concept i think.
              Hive slug?
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              • #8
                Re: NS Source Ideas

                The Hive Slug was awesome. :) I wonder if there are any pictures of that left in the UWE NS forums?


                • #9
                  Re: NS Source Ideas

                  *For lazy bums, I plan to have a basic summary in 2 sentences at the bottom... Personally, I recommend reading my section about alien changes.*

                  I spoke about this with my brother on many a boring car ride (yep... that's another corn field all right...) as we both enjoy NS. This is something I thought would make a fairly interesting way to handle the game. The only issue here is that some of this would probably be too much for the HL2/Source engine to handle and you would wind up with the "fun"tastic issues that NS has always had with being limited.

                  Take my ideas with a pinch of salt and all that, just some silly ideas. One thing to remember is what they said about NS2 being the "war." My understanding of that is that both sides are pretty much equipped for battle to start and research actively on the field only for things that are a tad harder to carry many of in small squadrons (can you say tanks or 50 foot tall onos derivatives?).
                  NS seemed to me to be more of surprise for both sides, no matter how prepared the player gets, the equipment on the marine side seems a little too "Rube Goldberg" in its application.


                  I personally, would love to see nicely done, massive outdoor maps that resemble canyons for like marine homeworlds. What I mean is, take a picture of say... Central-Western Wyoming. There is some beautiful scenery around there and I'd imagine you could have some downright epic battles in a canyon/mountain area.
                  For the alien homeworlds, when I think of the way the Kharaa are presented as being bacteria, I imagine that their homeworld would probably be kind of an oceanic world with probably massive plants that actually root into the bottom of seabeds. Not to leave that alone, I'd figure that since the Kharaa are so stupidly similar to the Zerg (just... don't argue that point... everyone knows it's true...), there would have to be vast open plains and forests forthat probably border on the obscene (think of the Black Forest, just 50000x older and bigger) for where extinct creatures used to roam that were assimilated. Just imagine: the aliens are pinning you down in your ship/base on their, or one of many, even, home planets and your battlefield happens to be a forest. Now this is where being able to apply extraneous physics to the map would be extremely fun: set fire to the forest and cripple their tactics.
                  Don't remove the station/space maps however, they should remain just as limited skirmishes that play sort of similar to current NS due to it being an "unexpected" fight.

                  ----------- This section below is probably my most detailed.

                  Starting off for the aliens, I would keep the life-forms initialized by NS, such as the Skulk, Gorge, Lerk, Fade, and Onos. These would be base forms that are actually the new bread-and-butter builds that you could start as. Next, the way you would utilize this is as more abilities become available, you get upgrade trees that you can build upon to make your "own" alien design of your own flavor. Like say... you have choices of 5 "trunks": Strength, Agility, Endurance, Ability Mastery, and the hardest to implement and improve, Size. As you fortify your team's position (multiple hives, etc), you gain more control over the bacteria that forms the body of the creature and you can apply more towards the stats of your lifeform. Here's the beauty part: different base forms have different "trunk" stat costs. This would be such as your Onos Base would have an easier time mastering Endurance and Strength versus the other three "trunks" or your Lerk being great for Agility and Ability Mastery.
                  For an example, say your team had 2 of maybe 10 hives up on the map and those two hives gave you 5 stat points each for 10 total. You're playing an Onos and you would really like to be a bit bigger and be a powerhouse. Unfortunately, Size is fairly expensive as it is fairly powerful, giving you special bonuses, such as invulnerability to attacks that simply are too weak to hurt you and additional range on strikes (not so much as to make it overpowered, but you get my point) and it alone costs you 7 points. Now you can apply your remaining points to say... buy one "stat" of Endurance for one point and one "stat" of Agility for two points (not a trait of the Onos Base). As you further develop a "trunk," the costs get steeper, so that that 7 point "Size" stat now costs another 14 for stat two! Congrats, you're now classified an Onos Evolution Stage One. Confusing, but definitely opens up a whole new book on strategy.
                  Further, you see me reference these "Evolution Stage #" things. I would imagine that it'd be cool for every 10 points spent, your creature takes a change in appearance based on your choices. That Onos? With Size an upgrade of its own class, you leave that out of the mix since it already increased the Onos's size. I'd say take the Endurance point (since it is an Onos trait) and maybe make the onos look a bit more armored.
                  Now, say you had a Fade Evolution Stage 2 (traits of Agility and Strength). With four Strength stats (1+2+3+6=12), two Agility stats (1+2=3), one Endurance stat (2), and one Ability Mastery stat (3). Because Strength is the most prominent, I'd say make the claws on the fade far more menacing, with maybe spikes and all that fun stuff protruding all along the arms and body. This Fade ES:2 may be a bit slow and less defensive, but if that thing hits you, you are probably in big trouble.


                  For the marines... I'd have to say that it would probably require an equipment system kind of like... say the Specialists or Firearms (I think that's the right one) with a maximum number of equipment "slots" that would be used for holding and as more resources/research is available, the commander can improve the max # of slots you can assign. If your commander has a need for more help of a certain equipment set, he can assign or ask people to turn in old weapons/equipment for new equipment. Say you had your equipment "slots" improved to a max of 20 and set as: 6 slot shotgun, 2 slot pistol, 1 slot knife, 3 slot welder, and your light armor was equipped with 5 slots of reinforcement and 3 "specialty slots," including NVG for 1 slot and a 2 slot Minor Injury Self-Contained Auto-Med for small damage repair (no more magic injury-curing medpack calls you punks). Since a high-Agility and high-Strength, skilled Fade Evolution Stage Three (six hives!?) has appeared, maybe you want a more long-range and devastating "solution." You trade in your SG, Pistol, Welder, NVG and 3 slots of reinforcement to open a total of 15 slots. You trade those in for say... an L.M.R.C. or Light Mobile Rail Cannon and you ask for some cover by your team. You move to a sniping position with your big 'ole gun and set up to wait for that Fade ES:3 to show itself so you can it it with your .3m Rail Spike and hopefully kill it. That gun may kill that Fade ES:3 in one shot, but if you miss... that thing is a bit flashy and noisy, so you better reload another spike quick or pray your team is going to save your butt.


                  *Yay, lazy bum summary time! Bigger maps (but keep the ship/station maps for smaller skirmishes and limited battles), more choices in your open-ended aliens, and a marine equipment setup that doesn't say "Improvised."
                  Last edited by Flarfignuggen; 08-24-2006, 04:01 PM. Reason: Forgot something.


                  • #10
                    Re: NS Source Ideas

                    I love flarf's idea with the slotted weapons, and to tie that in, make it more of an auto-upgrade system. For an explanation: You obviously start with an LMG/Pistol/Knife. As you upgrade the standard weapons1/2/3, you get visual and damage improvements to the weapons (i.e. the knife becomes a serrated knife, your bullets turn to hollowpoints then to say depleted uranium rounds capable of piercing thin walls/boxes) Along with that, certain weapons have slots. I'd limit this to the LMG, shotgun, welder and GL. Pistol and knife you cant really do too much with. As far as the slotted upgrades, allow the marines a choice. For example: with the LMG, when your team upgrades to the second slot, you can choose a sniper slot, which would drastically reduce clip size, increase power and allow a scope that locks "tracer" bullets on for distance shots. now whichever choice you make for your first slot sticks with you through every respawn. As the team progresses however, you gain more slots allowing for more weapon options, however, you can only have one active on each respawn. So say your team has just upgraded to two slots on primary weapons and you've chosen the sniper and recon slots. Your gun is sniper equipped and you die to a sneaky skulk that owned you while you camped for a distance shot on a fade. So you're dead and you dont want to be a sniper. You bring up your alt-menu and choose to switch to recon slot and when you respawn you now have a recon equipped gun. Also, your initial choice through the gun would be made through the menu once the team upgrades a slot. Simple enough? Ok, well then i'll outline my setups for the guns:

                    1.)Basic: 30 round clip, medium firing rate, medium damage.
                    2.)Sniper: 5 round "tracer"* clip, very low firing rate, extremely high damage, scope for zooming/locking targets (extremely inaccurate when unzoomed.
                    *Tracer bullets would lock on to enemies and are guranteed to his provided no physical objects come into the bullet's path. Optimal for outdoors maps with open areas.
                    3.)HMG: 150 round clip, high firing rate, low damage.
                    4.)Recon: Silenced weapon, burst fire only (3 or 5 round burst), high damage, 20 round clip.

                    1.)Standard: 8 round clip, high damage, large spread.
                    2.)Accuracy Modification: 5 round clip, very high damage, very small/precise spread.
                    3.)Extended clip modification: 16 round clip, fast reload (clip reload instead of shell by shell), increased recoil leading to less accuracy on following shots.
                    4.)Burst Modification: 18 round clip, drum clip reload (slow reload, like an HMG now), fires three shots at the same time (ideal for fade/hive killing), lowered damage per shell fired.

                    1.)Standard:Contact item, welds, extremely low damage as a weapon, no FF capability.
                    2.)Flamethrower: Very limited range, high damage, large clip size, but no ability to carry extra ammo. All reloads require a trip back to the armory.
                    3.)Laser welder: Highly increased welding capability (250% speed improvement welding structures/friendlies), can be used as a weapon in a pinch with very low damage, the clip would be an energy bar that slowly drains and self-recharges quickly, but the welder becomes unusable while its charging from ess than 25% (if its above 25%, it still self-recharges, but its also still usable).
                    ***Now the welder is interesting because it gives way for the flamethrower, however, when a flamethrower is equipped on a welder, you can't unequip it until you die (so the welder becomes a weapon, you cant weld with it and you CAN hurt your teammates by setting them on fire)
                    Grenade launcher:
                    1.)Basic: 4 round clip, slow reload, very high splash damage.
                    2.)Burst Launcher: 4 round magazine load clip (i.e. you load all 4 at once, not one at a time, but a very slow reload rate), high splash damage, launches all 4 shells at once.
                    3.)Proximity Grenade Launcher: 10 round clip, projects proximity grenades onto walls/structures/ceilings that last for 60 seconds before self destructing. Medium splash damage (about comparable to one normal shotgun shot) depending on your range from the explosion (one exploding on a ceiling above you wouldnt hurt as bad as stepping on one).

                    And for those of you kinda wondering how all this would work: you choose your upgrades for each weapon as soon as your team upgrades a slot. For example: the marine team upgrades to one slot, so you drag out your menu, choose your upgrade for your LMG, shotgun, welder and GL, regardless of whether or not you have one in your posession, so that if you pick one up, its equipped right.

                    The menu would look something like this:
                    .................................................. Eject
                    .................................................. ....|
                    .................................................. ....|
                    .................................................. ........................|
                    .................................................. ........................|
                    ...Light Machine Gun----------Shotgun---------Grenade Launcher-----------Welder
                    ............|....................................| ..............................|................... .......|
                    ......Option A.........................Option A..................Option A.................Option A
                    ......Option B.........................Option B..................Option B.................Option B
                    ......Option C.........................Option C..................Option C................Option C
                    ......Option D

                    And only the weapon menu and eject function would be available when youre dead since you obviously cant request meds when you're dead. But in theory, your choice would allow the IP to "know" what modifications you are fitted with. Which brings up another upgrade idea: marines can upgrade the ability to respawn with whatever weapon they died with and aliens can respawn as the same lifeform if they have a certain kind/number of chambers.


                    • #11
                      Re: NS Source Ideas

                      One thing that I can prolly expect to be lost is the oldschool feel of n-s just like every other source game you had to buy went through. However, I would like the camera angles of a skulk to be executed differently. The first time I played n-s, I remember noticing other skulks running up walls so I had to try it out aswell. But one thing that bugged me was the camera angle when you were running up a wall. You would still have the angle as if you are on the ground. A neat catch for n-s:S would be to the extent of walking on walls and actually viewing at the angle other players see your model viewing as. So if you are on the cieling, you would see upside down. If you were on a wall your angle would rotate a certain degree to match what your model looks like.
                      :icon31: <--(WTf is this)


                      • #12
                        Re: NS Source Ideas

                        + Bindable Weapon Attack Buttons (without slot switch)
                        + Revamped RT Running System. In the current architecture, RT running is a boring chore. Biting down RTs should NOT take as long as it does. The balance time is fine, but you don't need to have a player sitting there for a billion seconds with his face mashed into a structure.
                        + Better Hitboxes
                        + Implement Knockdown/Disable/Disarm/Stun/etc. Effects For Melee
                        + Vehicles
                        + Outdoor Environments With A 90 Res Dragon Lifeform
                        + Remove Hitpoints. Replace With Physical Disability According To Damaged Appendages


                        • #13
                          Re: NS Source Ideas

                          I would like to see the following.

                          -Hive hp reduced to 4,000.
                          -Can build 2 hives at once and it takes 2 minutes.
                          -Make the third hive as strong as the current second hive is.
                          -Have devour be last slot ability, and charge be second.

                          The changes above were requested by Jmms for this version of NS (with the exception of the last one I think), but it could work with source too. It would be cool to playtest a version like that in the current build to see if the game play gets a lot faster and more intense. Any team could make a comeback with shorter building hives. And since the third hive would no longer be game breaking, two hives would be like the middle man. It would give less armor absorbant bonus than the current two hives. Maybe nerf metabolize and leap a little bit to make it balanced.

                          -Catalyst increases reload time as well as speed and rate of fire. Level 1, 2, and 3 : 25%, 35%, 55% increased relatively.
                          -Alternate fire on each gun only available when upgraded.
                          -A Middle machine gun (MMG) Costing 10 res and it has 65 bullets and does 15 damage. Same ROF as the LMG, but a larger cone of fire.
                          -Marines get more advanced upgrades: Different weapon/armor upgrades. IE:
                          laser, regular, or uranium shells each used to counter what upgrades the aliens got. Level 1, 2, and 3 of each type.
                          As for armor like absorbant, regeneration, and deflecting. With level 1, 2 or 3 of each.

                          You can only have one type of armor or weapon upgrades untill you upgrade something that takes a while.

                          Upgrade tree applies to aliens as well with different mods for movement, sensory, and defense.

                          Sweet looking weapons. And nice alien models.

                          And the list goes on....


                          • #14
                            Re: NS Source Ideas

                            Originally posted by Dead_Meat View Post
                            a cow bell for the onos
                            we gotta have more cow bell

                            also we need the dune buggy
                            best idea ever ! lol


                            • #15
                              Re: NS Source Ideas

                              These are alot of FANTASTIC IDEA'S, but I'm gonna throw in something very quickly...

                              NS has always been a very strategic game, involving teamplay and balance between 2 teams that have only one thing in common. The need to gather, and use 'res'.

                              Most of the things I'd like to see in NS:S spawn from the HL1's lack of ability to handle beautiful things. Being able to shoot through boxes, egg's all the same size, hive's not bleeding when shot, marines/aliens not bleeding when shot, onos's pooping out marines that look like marines.
                              *** If I've been digested by something 10x my size, I'm going to look pretty mangled when I come out ****

                              Much to when it comes to actual game play there's alot of things which will have to be thought out. I love that idea of a plasma welder. absolutly love it. But points like new alien life forms, or how the blink ability would be used by a fade in an outdoor environment.. (He coudl blink across the map in one jump).

                              one thing i'd love to see

                              if egg's are shell's, then i want the shell to take the damage. once the shell's toast, the lifeform, if not above 75% gestation, dies. if above, it comes out hindered, until it can finish teh gestation period.
                              Ambriento for comm! Vote today!




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