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  • JP Griefs

    I am not good, at all, with a Jet Pack. I find it a pretty difficult skill to learn, and would like some tips on getting better. All to often I find myself holding down jump to lift off only to find myself hovering a foot off the ground not moving anywhere. This gets really frustrating really fast. So for all us dysfunctional with a JP, what can we do to get better?
    USAR

  • #2
    Re: JP Griefs

    I usually tap the jump key once they press forward so I will get a good length to fly forward. It usually helps if you also hold the duck key when flying, as IIRC, it reduces your hitbox size?

    I always thought the JP could stand to be a little more user-friendly. Although, the biggest help I can think of that helps is having a lower latency :P.
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    • #3
      Re: JP Griefs

      For me, I use the JP for the speed. Its great at moving, you don't need much height off the ground imho. The only time I use height is for aliens attacking towards me, like a blinking fade or an onos, with good latency and really good prediction skills(accompanied with MT), you can see the fade and dodge their attack(depending on the fade). The hardest thing for a JP is knowing when to chase and knowing when to run. And teammates with welders should be your best or second best friend,(my best friend is usually a trusty HMG or shotty).

      Try tapping the key once, and then again to gain height, and there is always the starting up a listen server and turning cheats on and giving yourself a jetpack and flying around different maps getting a feel for them, the majority of the time players don't get good with an item because they don't have much practice with it.

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      • #4
        Re: JP Griefs

        On ns_eclipse, I can maintain controlled flight from marine spawn to maintenance hive without every hitting the ground once along the way. I'm pretty decent at moving around a map I know like the back of my hand. Once you put me in battle, I can get overwhelmed pretty quickly.

        As a beginner, don't think of it as "flying". Think of it as "extended jumping." Know where you want to land and then "take off" all over again once you get there. As you do that, spend less and less time on the ground between "flights" ("jumps"). Over time, connect your "jumps" into one contiguous "flight".
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        • #5
          Re: JP Griefs

          Originally posted by aeroripper View Post
          I usually tap the jump key once they press forward so I will get a good length to fly forward. It usually helps if you also hold the duck key when flying, as IIRC, it reduces your hitbox size?
          There's two things to be aware of when ducking: reduced "hitbox" and reduced "collision hull". The two aren't the same (since 3.0), but are both important.

          Your hitbox determines whether an alien does that 75 damage to you when he tries to bite you. Having a little smaller hitbox can never hurt, but honestly, the hardest part of biting a JPer is getting TO them, not aiming at them. Don't rely on this too much.

          Your Collision Hull determines whether you continue flying forward, or bump your head on that bar sticking out of the ceiling and come to a stop, or bump your feet on that box your were trying to fly over and again come to a stop. This is important for any lifeform moving through the air...which basically means Fades and JPs, since Lerks and Skulks can't duck. A smaller Collision Hull is incredibly useful for navigating tight spaces.

          Ok, that was probably more technical information than any of you wanted, right?
          -----------------------------------------------

          Topic 2: Lift
          Also known as "why am I hovering 5 feet off the ground instead of flying away from that dangerous skulk?"

          The first thing to remember here is, a Jetpack does NOT cancel out the effect of gravity. Well, sort of. Allow me to make up some numbers to illustrate.

          Lets say standard gravity acceleration is 100 units per second, down. The thrust gained from holding down your Jetpack button is only slightly more than that---say 125 units up. (The push to the side is completely separate, I think). When Jetpacking, your Gravity and Jetpack acceleration are added together. So as long as you hold down the Jump button, your vertical speed will slowly increase...but only at 25 units per second. When falling, your vertical speed decreases at 100 units per second. So if you're already moving downwards, holding down the jetpack button is very ineffective at bringing you back up again. It mostly just slows your fall.

          So how do you spring into the air? By jumping. When you jump off the ground, you pick up around 150 units of upwards speed before you even have to use your Jetpack. The benefit of the Jetpack is that you don't have to LOSE that speed, and you can let it carry you all the way to the ceiling. But if you don't have much initial speed, you'll find yourself "hovering" because the Jetpack doesn't add a whole lot of extra speed. When you need to get up in the air quickly, first you have to land so you can push off the ground for that extra boost of speed.

          One final point--apparently your framerate does something to interefere with how much of the JP power is directed upwards vs how much is directed sideways. I don't know how this works, but I've heard that at extremely high framerates the power is almost entirely directed sideways, making it hard to gain altitude but letting you hover around while moving extremely fast forwards and backwards.

          This is probably an incomplete JP guide, but I couldn't add any more without going and testing it.

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          • #6
            Re: JP Griefs

            Back in 1.04 your framerate DIRECTLY controlled your vertical rate. I used to play at about 30fps and couldn't get off the ground on most maps. They changed that going to 2.0 and it's a lot better now. I can't say I've ever heard anything about framerate controlling your other directions of flight.
            Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

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            • #7
              Re: JP Griefs

              actually, i've had some very good and very bad times controlling and flying my jetpack, almost totally reguarding fps. I think I might try this with SV Cheats on, and see if I can actually get any real feeling for FPS at 20-40-60-80-100

              another thing with jetpacks. Much like strafing when bunny hopping as a skulk, there are some VERY interesting manuvers you can pull off with a jetpack.
              However, when it comes down to it, you only have so much fuel, so doing extended jumps is usually the best thing to do
              jump, pop 2 into hive/alien, change directino, land, jump, pop hive/alien.....
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              • #8
                Re: JP Griefs

                Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                Topic 2: Lift
                Also known as "why am I hovering 5 feet off the ground instead of flying away from that dangerous skulk?"

                The first thing to remember here is, a Jetpack does NOT cancel out the effect of gravity. Well, sort of. Allow me to make up some numbers to illustrate.

                Lets say standard gravity acceleration is 100 units per second, down. The thrust gained from holding down your Jetpack button is only slightly more than that---say 125 units up. (The push to the side is completely separate, I think). When Jetpacking, your Gravity and Jetpack acceleration are added together. So as long as you hold down the Jump button, your vertical speed will slowly increase...but only at 25 units per second. When falling, your vertical speed decreases at 100 units per second. So if you're already moving downwards, holding down the jetpack button is very ineffective at bringing you back up again. It mostly just slows your fall.

                So how do you spring into the air? By jumping. When you jump off the ground, you pick up around 150 units of upwards speed before you even have to use your Jetpack. The benefit of the Jetpack is that you don't have to LOSE that speed, and you can let it carry you all the way to the ceiling. But if you don't have much initial speed, you'll find yourself "hovering" because the Jetpack doesn't add a whole lot of extra speed. When you need to get up in the air quickly, first you have to land so you can push off the ground for that extra boost of speed.
                This would explain why sometimes I simply don't seem to lift off the ground, thank you.
                USAR

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                • #9
                  Re: JP Griefs

                  1. Try ducking just as after your initial "jump." It may be my imagination, but it seems to me like ducking somehow makes you get a little extra propulsion. Maybe you technically weigh less or something, but whatever the case, it seems to help.

                  2. This part is not easy to do, but when you're trapped in a room with, say, a fade 1 on 1, you may find that you land/take off a bit too predictably to survive. Using the speed-boosting (and direction changing) principals of bunnyhopping, one can drastically alter the way one flies about the room. Consider using only your strafe keys while you jetpack. It takes getting used to, but definately can be very advantageous.

                  3. Keep an eye on your fuel and learn to predict how much fuel it takes to get from one place to the next. This plays out kinda like fading. If you're in viaduct, you can find yourself at a wonderful advantage IF you keep your fuel up. However, if you suddenly decide that you need to bail, you may find the advantage of that open area to turn out to be your disadvantage. It takes a nice, good burst of fuel to get all the way up there, so you're gonna need to scan the area quickly for an open patch of ground. You'll probably need to only land for a second or so (because while you are descending in the JP, your fuel regenerates too, so time it right, and you won't have to risk yourself too badly). Try to run before you take-off, and now might be a good time to employ that bunny-hop turning that I mentioned earlier.

                  4. Know when flying will give you an advantage, and when it will not. In certain rooms, flying will make your life much more difficult. Try to balance flying with aiming, as I, personally, have a hard time doing both at the same time well. If you've just jetpacked across the room, try to take stock of who is watching you land. Shoot them first. And don't miss. If you find yourself missing, it's time for more evasive action.


                  "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock

                  "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God! =)' or 'Good God, morning! =(" - Blackalicious

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                  • #10
                    Re: JP Griefs

                    Originally posted by Kerostasis View Post
                    Topic 2: Lift
                    Also known as "why am I hovering 5 feet off the ground instead of flying away from that dangerous skulk?"

                    The first thing to remember here is, a Jetpack does NOT cancel out the effect of gravity. Well, sort of. Allow me to make up some numbers to illustrate.

                    Lets say standard gravity acceleration is 100 units per second, down. The thrust gained from holding down your Jetpack button is only slightly more than that---say 125 units up. (The push to the side is completely separate, I think). When Jetpacking, your Gravity and Jetpack acceleration are added together. So as long as you hold down the Jump button, your vertical speed will slowly increase...but only at 25 units per second. When falling, your vertical speed decreases at 100 units per second. So if you're already moving downwards, holding down the jetpack button is very ineffective at bringing you back up again. It mostly just slows your fall.

                    So how do you spring into the air? By jumping. When you jump off the ground, you pick up around 150 units of upwards speed before you even have to use your Jetpack. The benefit of the Jetpack is that you don't have to LOSE that speed, and you can let it carry you all the way to the ceiling. But if you don't have much initial speed, you'll find yourself "hovering" because the Jetpack doesn't add a whole lot of extra speed. When you need to get up in the air quickly, first you have to land so you can push off the ground for that extra boost of speed.
                    So once you understand the above, you can think about when you want to tap jump and when you want to hold it down. If you can time it such that you start holding it down at the peak of your jump (when you have no vertical velocity), you'll be able to fly forward without too much vertical change giving you problems. If you feel a sudden need to be higher, DON'T keep holding it down. Instead, touch down for a second, then jump to get that 150 boost and you can skyrocket to the ceiling.

                    Another thing that seems to make the difference between whether I live or die as a jp is if I remember to shoot from the ground. The most effective thing seems to be to use Wyz's "extended jump" to buy yourself distance from that scary skulk, then land and shoot. I find that trying to shoot while flying drastically decreases my accuracy. I'm sure this is different for those more experienced with a jp, but since 99% of my practice aiming comes from times when I was solidly on the ground, my ammo is better spent in that situation. Whenever I try to hover above a skulk and shoot it, I seem to empty my clip into the floor and then land in his mouth.

                    One final thing. I've heard people mention toggling duck (so that you stay ducked without having to hold down the button). Is this actually possible, and if so how is it done? Or is this just from people scripting? This isn't for jp as much as for fade, since I would be a much more effective fade if I were actually able to continually hold down duck while fighting (maybe I just need to remap my keys to make this easier).

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                    • #11
                      Re: JP Griefs

                      Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
                      I've heard people mention toggling duck (so that you stay ducked without having to hold down the button). Is this actually possible, and if so how is it done? Or is this just from people scripting?
                      This is done with scripting, nothing complicated really. I use a toggle for walk in every HL mod for comfort, less stress on your hand if you sneak around a lot. There's no real advantage to it in that case, so I don't see such scripts as questionable. Crouching, on the other hand, would be a major plus when bunny hopping.

                      If you want it, here's the code for your config. Should be self explanatory in case you want something else to toggle.

                      Code:
                      //duck toggle
                      alias "t_duck" "t_duck_on"
                      alias "t_duck_on" "+duck; alias t_duck t_duck_off"
                      alias "t_duck_off" "-duck; alias t_duck t_duck_on"
                      
                      bind "<key of choice>" "t_duck"

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                      • #12
                        Re: JP Griefs

                        Ag, try:

                        alias duck_on "alias duck duck_off; +duck"
                        alias duck_off "alias duck duck_on; -duck"
                        alias duck duck_on
                        bind x duck

                        Have fun.

                        edit: well, I'll be. looks like I done wasted my time, lol.


                        "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock

                        "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God! =)' or 'Good God, morning! =(" - Blackalicious

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                        • #13
                          Re: JP Griefs

                          I'm reasonably sure the NS team included a toggleduck function pre-coded with one of the 3.x patches. Its most likely +toggleduck and -toggleduck, although I'm not certain of that. Its not too difficult to build your own toggle functions though, as posted above.

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                          • #14
                            Re: JP Griefs

                            It would be 'toggleduck' then, in HL +/-actions are executed on button press and release. Would be easy to test, so why don't I just do that.

                            ...

                            Why, indeed! There is a command 'toggleduck' in NS. No 'togglewalk' though, so I guess we'll have some use of our l33t scripting abilities yet.

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                            • #15
                              Re: JP Griefs

                              There shoudn't be any jetpack specific FPS issues remaining in NS. I just did some tests using fps_max to limit me to various framerates, and I was able to take off with the jetpack at all of them.

                              There is a jetpack bug that might account for what are experiencing, squeak. If you touch the ground while you are jetpacking, you will stick to it until you stop jetpacking. This sometimes happens to people ( myself included ) after a botched attempt at jetpacking during some panic filled combat. This is most definately an NS bug, and is caused by a clash between the jetpacking code and the standard sdk code that causes players to slide along surfaces ( for example, if you jump onto a crate in the crouched position, you will slide along it )

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