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  • Beta Suggestions.

    I dont know if anyone else reads the beta forums, they are interesting and some amazing ideas that people bring up.

    I just hope that the devs read them.

    Here is an interesting peice of info.

    - .42 seconds per bite

    - .067 per bullet, again, for a total of .603 secs to kill a skulk in 9 perfect shots

    Just goes to show you, no matter how good of a skulk you are, a marine of equal skill will win.

    The only way to win is to not be seen during your first bite and not to bite them while they are jumping cause of the massive kickback.

    Skulks need a boost.
    Last edited by Emanon; 04-08-2004, 06:32 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Beta Suggestions.

    Because people don't know how to ambush?

    People need to adapt, 1.04 is over, skulks aren't invincible for a reason =P
    - 52

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    • #3
      Re: Beta Suggestions.

      Originally posted by Emanon
      - .42 seconds per bite

      - .067 per bullet, again, for a total of .603 secs to kill a skulk in 9 perfect shots

      Just goes to show you, no matter how good of a skulk you are, a marine of equal skill will win.
      A few thoughts.

      "equality = balance" is a myth. At first, you would think equality should yield balance, but, when you think more about it, that's just dumb and hurts the game more than it helps. The devs will not solve any problems by making two bites occur in .01 seconds of time less than is required to fire 9 pistol rounds.

      We've just argued that players must be considered when evaluating the balance of a game's features, gameplay and design. Now, take 1000 players and see how many of them can, in combat, land two bites on a marine in .84 seconds. Now put a pistol in the hand of those same 1000 players and see how many can, in combat, land 9 successful pistol shots on a skulk in .84 seconds, much less .603 seconds. If anything, more marines will die than will skulks, not the other way around, as the argument you referenced suggests.

      "No matter how good of a skulk you are" isn't restricted to the assumption that the marine will land all 9 shots with that pistol. What is safely assumed if we're talking about skilled skulks and skilled marines is that the skulk is going to have the element of surprise, making it, speaking practically and not theoretically, exTREMEly unlikely that the marine is going to land all 9 shots with the pistol.

      Wyzcrak
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: Beta Suggestions.

        Wait. You're telling me we should shoot the /skulks/? Oh man this changes *everything*. Just when I had enough exp to buy my AK-47, too.

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        • #5
          Re: Beta Suggestions.

          Originally posted by I'm stupid
          Wait. You're telling me we should shoot the /skulks/? Oh man this changes *everything*. Just when I had enough exp to buy my AK-47, too.
          Wow. That was too easy. :)

          Wyzcrak
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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          • #6
            Re: Beta Suggestions.

            FYI, I didnt want to start a balance thread again but let me correct you on a few things.

            We are talking about LMG, pistol can shoot faster than the LMG so thats another story.

            Second The only Time I ever have a hard time killing any skulk of any skill level is in combat cause of all the upgrades. Ambush or not.

            Close quaters the alien no longer has the advantage.

            Skulks do need a boost and its coming.

            Almost every player is a better marine than skulk. So Wyz your terribly wrong.

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            • #7
              Re: Beta Suggestions.

              Originally posted by Wyzcrak

              "No matter how good of a skulk you are" isn't restricted to the assumption that the marine will land all 9 shots with that pistol. What is safely assumed if we're talking about skilled skulks and skilled marines is that the skulk is going to have the element of surprise, making it, speaking practically and not theoretically, exTREMEly unlikely that the marine is going to land all 9 shots with the pistol.
              But you're forgetting the wonderful world known as "knockback".

              I'm all for ambushing, I am a big preacher of it. But whats the point of ambushing when you as a skulk can get the jump on a marine only for that marine to get knocked clear across the room and regain his advantage.

              Knockback has been around since 2.X days, but now its becoming more of a factor when its an ambushing skulk vs an unupgraded marine. That marine, who lost his advantage when the skulk ambushed him, can now regain his advantage by getting knocked back... which is BS. That marine should lose, and adding this "feature" just gave those "rambo marines" a helping hand and reduced teamwork.

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              • #8
                Re: Beta Suggestions.

                Also Knockback has been listed as a bug.

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                • #9
                  Re: Beta Suggestions.

                  Really? I've read that they put that in to "balance" out the game.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Beta Suggestions.

                    Ambushing, confusion, swarming, converging, outspawning, dodging, rushing, baiting, parasite, along with more tools at the disposal of the skulk. Maybe in the public world people don't use them, but any skulk with half a brain will. It's not hard to kill marines. I find it unfortuneate that the dev's have to accomidate to the skulks with out half a brain. I guess that's why coffee cups have "Caution, Hot" labeled on them.

                    God forbid public people realize they need to team up to get things done. The same skulk that can kill 3+ marines, needs a boost.
                    Last edited by NothingMore.; 04-08-2004, 08:06 PM.
                    - 52

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                    • #11
                      Re: Beta Suggestions.

                      I don't agree that most players kill more vanilla skulks than vanilla marines. I agree that Emanon kills more vanilla skulks than vanilla skulks kill Emanon, but I don't see that as representative of the NS playerbase at large.

                      Is your claim that skulks are getting a boost in reference to something specific you read, or just wishful thinking/speculation? Regardless of what I think about the skulk, I am interested to learn about what changes, if any, are coming.

                      Wyzcrak
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Beta Suggestions.

                        The massive knockback has been listed as a bug. I believe (read) they are just going to reduce its effectiveness.

                        Nothing, all those things besides parasite are also in the hands of the marines. That one skulk shouldnt be picking on new players.


                        Just Trying to get people involved in ways to help the game, Nothing thinks it needs nothing. Tell me what you guys have!


                        There is no reason why any one marine should be able to finish an NS game with a KD ration of 36:1 even when getting ambushed from multiple entrances. This is the main reason I bring this up. It was me on TG:NS, I'm complaining about myself. (Yes many other people can do that aswell, I know, so dont flame me, I'm just bringing up an instance.)
                        Last edited by Emanon; 04-08-2004, 08:17 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Beta Suggestions.

                          here is another i found. http://www.natural-selection.org/for...ic=67696&st=15
                          while having a fouth chamber is insane, and would require much beta testing to keep the game in balance, i like the ideas that lurker says on the first page.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Beta Suggestions.

                            I think the most important thing would be to make the skulk useful deeper into the game. I consider the skulk to be the most fun, and skulk vs. LA marines to be the most exciting matchups, but unfortunately those matchups are only equal for about 3 minutes of game time, and then skulks become cannon-fodder.

                            3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Beta Suggestions.

                              Originally posted by Emanon
                              The massive knockback has been listed as a bug. I believe (read) they are just going to reduce its effectiveness.

                              Nothing, all those things besides parasite are also in the hands of the marines. That one skulk shouldnt be picking on new players.


                              Just Trying to get people involved in ways to help the game, Nothing thinks it needs nothing. Tell me what you guys have!


                              There is no reason why any one marine should be able to finish an NS game with a KD ration of 36:1 even when getting ambushed from multiple entrances. This is the main reason I bring this up. It was me on TG:NS, I'm complaining about myself. (Yes many other people can do that aswell, I know, so dont flame me, I'm just bringing up an instance.)
                              Cargo is easy to defend Ema. Because marines are ranged, and aliens aren't. There's things to jump off, and the room is huge. I know what game you're talking about. The only chance the aliens have to take back cargo is higher life forms, or a coordinated rush. Some times, even on TG, that's not possible.

                              I've joined public servers, that have teams like 12v12 and I've gone 80+ kills and like 5 deaths. Does that mean marines need to get nerfed?

                              I think it means that I'm a good player, and the people I was playing against, weren't. So beef up aliens, because there's actualy, get this, *skilled* people that play this game.
                              Last edited by NothingMore.; 04-08-2004, 08:43 PM.
                              - 52

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