Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Alien Give-Up

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Alien Give-Up

    I'm going to try not to b****, but some way needs to be determined to allow aliens to give up.

    Maybe "recycling" the hive via a plugin or something... (I'm imagining it would prevent aliens from spawning and then when we're all dead kill the hive.)
    or allowing the aliens to bite down the hive.
    Maybe even just a plugin that if the team votes for it it would kill the hive and the ping of death would start.

    Either that, or a rule needs to be made against marines recycling or giving up.

    It's a terrible morale hit to wait while the marines draw out a game for twenty minutes, and it affects the games that follow. There should be a faster way to end a doomed game to get to have more fun.



    The argument that "well stop attacking us" is not valid. When marines give up they can go down fighting. It's also not terribly fun to hide in a vent.

    When marines go out of their way to come kill you in a vent because you've given up rather than go and kill the hive... yeah. It draws the game out even more and nobody likes sitting in the spawn queue waiting for the hive to die, wether they have given up or not.
    remi.D

  • #2
    Re: Alien Give-Up

    Originally posted by blu.knight View Post
    I'm going to try not to b****, but some way needs to be determined to allow aliens to give up.

    Maybe "recycling" the hive via a plugin or something... (I'm imagining it would prevent aliens from spawning and then when we're all dead kill the hive.)
    or allowing the aliens to bite down the hive.
    Maybe even just a plugin that if the team votes for it it would kill the hive and the ping of death would start.

    Either that, or a rule needs to be made against marines recycling or giving up.

    It's a terrible morale hit to wait while the marines draw out a game for twenty minutes, and it affects the games that follow. There should be a faster way to end a doomed game to get to have more fun.



    The argument that "well stop attacking us" is not valid. When marines give up they can go down fighting. It's also not terribly fun to hide in a vent.

    When marines go out of their way to come kill you in a vent because you've given up rather than go and kill the hive... yeah. It draws the game out even more and nobody likes sitting in the spawn queue waiting for the hive to die, wether they have given up or not.
    I completely agree, and was pondering starting a thread on just this topic. Marine recycling has gotten epidemic lately. Even if I'm on the winning team, I would always prefer for a game to end once victory is inevitable.
    Rm 14:2 NIV
    One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Alien Give-Up

      yea, but its always dissapointing, especially as a commander to see it end this way.
      I guess you get more of a sense of accomplishment destroying that last hive =P

      It seems when the marines recycle, its at the point where there are a few fades on the IP's and its just a slaughter house. Aliens have already destroyed their base at this point, right?

      When marines take down that last hive it is typically very quick, and if you dont want to die countless times you can hide in a vent or atop the hive.

      The problem is when marines take unnecessary time to take down the last hive when they have little to no resistance. ( at least I believe so )

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Alien Give-Up

        Another problem is how often in hera or nothing the marines recycle and then just wait for the aliens to come so they can jump. It seems like it's about as satisfying as if they f4.

        That's not to say it should be done with, but I don't think that every game in hera should end with marines jumping.
        remi.D

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Alien Give-Up

          This is a social problem, not a technical or administrative one.

          If the *entire* team is ready to lose, the *entire* team needs to stop attacking. It *is* a valid argument, and I regularly apply it to my efforts to ending lost games quickly when I'm an alien. If the team agrees, games end within five minutes. If the entire team doesn't agree, I remind myself that I'm just one peer on the team, and that my teammates clearly don't all share my need for the game to end as soon as possible.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Alien Give-Up

            While I agree with you wyz, heres the main problem I've seen several times lately and countless times in the farther past:
            Aliens are down to one hive. Marines have total map control. Marines are in the last hive spawncamping everyone.
            But instead of having one or two guys spawncamp and the rest shooting the hive down, they get the whole team to spawncamp and have one guy build sieges...OR...they have the whole team spawncamp until heavies or jetpacks are done and then go in with em.
            In either situation, the aliens cant do anything. We're forced to sit there and not fight, as you said, until the marines are good and ready to kill the hive. I've seen this stretch out as far as 5 minutes before. One skulk managed to escape the spawncamp, rush MS and destroy the AA and proto while jp's were being upgraded and the marines proceeded to spawncamp until a new AA was upgraded and JP's were dropped.
            In my opinion, this is inexcusable. In cases such as these, I believe that aliens should just be allowed to F4. I realize its mucho fun for rines to sit in the hive and inflate their scores by picking off spawners, but it's certainly no fun for aliens to have to sit there for 2-3 minutes or longer waiting for the game to end. Regardless of whether or not it's considered "sportsmanlike" play on the aliens part to f4, it's certainly unsportsmalike to draw out a game to unnecessary lengths of time.
            In these kinds of situations I see a lot of rage quits and the server population drops like a rock after the round is over. We just need a rule or something to govern how long is acceptable for an endgame.
            Now I understand that there are arguments on both sides, such as on tanith when rines are turtled inside MS and screaming for aliens to end it...but they keep shooting with HMG's at anything that walks in. Well, the marines have the recycle option, which prevents further spawning, thus effectively ending the game once everyone is dead and the comm jumps out. Aliens dont really have that ability, so there needs to be some kind of balance.
            I realize that this is a singular situation, but it needs to be addressed in conjunction with the main issue here.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Alien Give-Up

              The end of your rant Ferris is exactly how I think this could be fixed.

              If we were to give the aliens a way to basically simulate the end-game in a captain's game all could be fixed. (No hives, no spawning, but no ping-of-death)

              I think it could be done, and I think a simple text vote type of thing could be effective...
              In other words, everyone on the alien team types /rechive or something, and 70% of the alien team needs to do it for the hive to be "recycled"
              remi.D

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Alien Give-Up

                "as long as five minutes"? having to wait "2-3 minutes"? Jesus, listen to yourselves! I've sat in traffic waiting to turn left longer than that!

                If you're ready for the game to end, don't send that skulk to "rush MS and destroy the AA and proto". This is NOT rocket science.

                Damn straight it's not fun while you wait. I'm glad the marines get to "have fun" while they get their asses handed to them by end-game aliens, but we don't need a plugin to solve this SOCIAL problem.

                Good lord, even if you *could* convince me that the very principle of this "problem" justifies a new plugin, I dread thinking what it'd be explaining its operation to the *countless, endless* count of players who, during its time on the server, would take *severe dissatisfaction* from being on a team that used this plugin (or whatever) against their own wishes.

                70% might as well describe how much of my inbox is consumed by complaint PMs once this hits the server.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Alien Give-Up

                  Originally posted by Wyzcrak View Post
                  "as long as five minutes"? having to wait "2-3 minutes"? Jesus, listen to yourselves! I've sat in traffic waiting to turn left longer than that!

                  If you're ready for the game to end, don't send that skulk to "rush MS and destroy the AA and proto". This is NOT rocket science.

                  Damn straight it's not fun while you wait. I'm glad the marines get to "have fun" while they get their asses handed to them by end-game aliens, but we don't need a plugin to solve this SOCIAL problem.

                  Good lord, even if you *could* convince me that the very principle of this "problem" justifies a new plugin, I dread thinking what it'd be explaining its operation to the *countless, endless* count of players who, during its time on the server, would take *severe dissatisfaction* from being on a team that used this plugin (or whatever) against their own wishes.

                  70% might as well describe how much of my inbox is consumed by complaint PMs once this hits the server.
                  I could not agree more with Wyz on this. Guys, suck it up. Talk to your team. If there is a problem with a general attitude and you want it removed, pm an admin and if administrative action is necessary we will intervene.

                  One of the primary goals, over all others, is to create a community here. That means keeping the mature and respectable players, and removing the ones that don't measure up.


                  Oh, and I too am getting very tired of all the Marine Recycling going on. Talk about a kill joy.
                  USAR

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Alien Give-Up

                    Fair enough Wyz...
                    But on the time issue:
                    This game moves fast. Five minutes is long enough to get well into another game and have much more fun.
                    remi.D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Alien Give-Up

                      I disagree, and that's the *highest* count of minutes we've agreed this delay to typically consume, if managed properly.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Alien Give-Up

                        I wasnt debating whether or not its a social problem, nor did i suggest a plugin. I simply suggested a justified F4ing to avoid a prolonged endgame. Additionally, talking to your team only goes so far, especially in the scenarios I outlined, when the problem isnt the alien team trying to fight back so much as it is the marine team drawing out simply because they can.
                        My main issue with the whole thing is that the whole alien team can (and has before) be screaming at the marines to end it and the marine team doesnt seem to care, so yes, its absolutely a social problem. However, the social way to solve it is to use our existing measures to solve the problem, e.g. F4ing if the marines are being unnecessarily slow. Please understand Wyz, i know how unnecessary an addional plugin is and how ridiculously difficult it would be to manage and police, which is why i suggested what I did. I simply dont want people getting griped at for F4ing if they get sick of waiting for the marines to end it.

                        P.S. - yes, 5 mins is a long time in NS. Its enough time to build a hive and drop chambers, as well as long enough to sit in the spawn queue and die several times over, when the time could much better be spent on a fresh round.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Alien Give-Up

                          I agree.

                          I find it frustrating to be on aliens at times when the game is over, you know its over because marines have teched up, you have one hive, you have maybe 2 RTs, and nobody has any significant amount of res.

                          It annoys me to see marines recycle even if they had a slight chance but I am fine with that, thats usually a team decision. I do wish there was an option for aliens to just do something to end the game on their end if they want to. I don't think "hiding in a vent" or "hiding on top of the hive" is a legitimate equivalent for aliens.

                          For marines they can fight back and still feel accomplished, aliens, start out as skulks and die quickly, so there is less accomplishment felt when you fight near an endgame as a skulk, and in the end you are just helping to delay the game. Whereas marines can delay the game from inside MS, and recycle their weapons and stay welded. I played a game like that on Eon earlier. Marines just holed up and held off the aliens for at least 5 minutes. Aliens don't get the chance to do that. Skulks die in like 10 LMG bullets.

                          Marines losing can still be fun if you have a good MS to hole up in.
                          Aliens losing isn't much fun because skulks die quickly and have to get close to do damage, and if they roam the map chewing RTs or whatever it just ends up delaying the game because one marine has to go around and recap and/or defend those locations.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Alien Give-Up

                            Originally posted by freebirdpat View Post
                            Marines just holed up and held off the aliens for at least 5 minutes. Aliens don't get the chance to do that. Skulks die in like 10 LMG bullets.
                            Seven. Or just four with HMGs. ;)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Alien Give-Up

                              Mom's gotta get boned on this subject too and agree with the general consensus. It's not so much that Marines get to savor the fun of losing on some maps, or that they can recycle; the fact that irks people here is that you can't get the entire team to do something and you can't get the marines to end the game in a timely fashion IN SOME CASES.

                              It is completely un-called-for when a Marine team waits for ANYTHING to end the game, be it JP's, Heavies, or cat-packs. In fact, it goes against everything we see in the game on a daily basis. Spawn camping or not, if you give the aliens ONE chance to take the game back, they will. That end game beacon for JP's could be met by a Fade and a Lerk and just get demolished. I do understand that this rarely happens, but it can.

                              We play this game for several reasons, but I think the main reason we keep coming back is the people. Our friends, and partners, that we see every night. Think of THEM when you're prolonging a game. Instead of thinking how much fun a final cat-pack rush would be for your marines, or you, think of the 3 or 4 friends that will leave when you prolong the game for another few minutes to get those packs.

                              I don't see that we need an administrative decision made (although I would like to see a way for Aliens to "recycle"), but SOMETHING needs to be done. Aliens need to see more base destruction and Marines NEED to show more courtesy towards their fellow player once end game comes around.

                              -Mom
                              Yer Mom /O>

                              To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X