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  • Co_Asterisk Feedback

    Map is a ton of fun, RR is unique, but some minor details needed to be added that everymap needs to make it stand above the others.

    The "dark room" I love, makes me prey as I walk through it. A broken light that flickers like a strobe would be great.

    The vent that tycho was talking about needs to be moved.

    Coolant room (room with the 2 tubes) is good cause you can see the marine's feet as they come running down the hall but they cant see you. But the 2 bars that connect them should be a bit higher so a skulk can run under.

    The hive room is superb cause its large enough to stop spawn camping but has the columns to the walk way that give great cover. The roof needs to be redone to make it less JP friendly and it needs to look like it belongs in a hive room. Also its a bit square so some 45 degree angles would be nice.

    Marine spawn is fine how it is.

    Leave the lights by the door switches cause I can understand why people said they couldnt find them.

    Track lighting is a great effect.


    Just work on making the rooms a little less square and it would be a great map.



    Finish it up quick, I want to play it on the normal NS server ASAP.

  • #2
    Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

    Remove the Ordnance sign in marine spawn. It seems out of place and is spelled incorrectly to boot :p

    Besides the vent that needs to be moved and some minor detail and ambience additions the map is complete. I dig it and cannot wait to see it on our rotation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

      Looks and feels great, I would like to see more cover in the room that tycho was talking about moving the vent. Maybe a box or something near the door.

      I had a blast on the map... I dont think its too big, I know it was talked about, but i think the size is good for the team size we had.

      The infestation in the hive room could be better(where we talked about) i would like to see those lines broken up so there is not such a sudden change of textures.

      Otherwise it looked great.
      I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
      --Douglas Adams

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

        This map is so fun for so many reasons. First of all, it has great variety when it comes to environment in which battles can happen. It's got several long hallways and several large rooms. There's plenty of lighting dynamics as well; at times you're fighting in very well-lighted areas while in other situations you're struggling to see the enemy you're attacking. I distinctly recall a time last night where the only appreciable light provided for my up-close battle with the skulk was the flash of my LMG muzzle... that's scary times, and it was fun as hell. :) It does seem like a big map, but, like B said, it worked just fine in practice with as many people as we had, and you're likely to have more people than we had on any public server this map is played on.

        The atmosphere is very effective at making you think you're really on a ship, and really fighting for your survival (if you guys haven't heard the backstory for this map, have Yellow explain it to you sometime). There are several awesome opportunities for ambushing people at several spots on the map. This is aided by the lighting (or lack thereof) I'm talking about. The map is just damn creepy, which adds a lot to the fun you have playing on it, regardless of which team you're on. The map has an extensive vent system. There are vents on the map that I never even saw last night, but heard people talking about. I never got a jetpack last night, but it has to be fun to have a jetpack with all those vents, including the vent in the middle of the map, which allows its traverser immediate access to any of the middle map's three levels.

        Emanon mentioned flickering lights (strobe?), and I say the more the better. The backstory already talks about marines struggling to survive. Nothing like a sparking light switch to show that the ship is struggling to survive as well. Put flickering, buzzing switches or panels in those dark rooms or hallways and those areas just become creepier (and it's harder to hear incoming skulks, which makes it scarier).

        Agreed what Emanon said about Coolant, except that marines CAN see the feet of skulks between those two bars as they enter the room. It's damn scary as you approach, because, the closer you get, the more of your LOS (line of sight) on the skulk is taken away due to the bar(s). So, the closer you get to the skulk, the less information you have about where he is in relation to you. SCARY! HOLD ME!

        We goofed around on the map last night for a while, talking about ideas and criticisms, and generally becoming familiar with the layout. But we eventually turned off alltalk and decided to play seriously as teams. The aliens ended up winning because they had the better teamwork and strategy, but, as you would expect with a server of members-only, the gameplay was pretty intense. Both teams stuck to objectives for the most part, which was helpful since we were testing the map.

        Oh, and before I forget, that has to be the most unique readyroom I've ever seen. That's awesome! haha! I will say that it would be nice if you could somehow tell which "side" of the readyroom you're looking at without looking at the team portals. Similar to the Powersilo hive, it can be a little confusing as to which direction you're pointing when you first orient yourself, as the readyroom doesn't seem to have any side-specific insignia or landmarks independent of the team portals themselves.

        I did notice that the hive room made it very easy to grenade the hive from afar, similar to how you can stand on either side of the very front of hive room on co_faceoff and lob grenades all the way into the hive. It's not so bad on the bottom level, as the columns (holy crap. the columns are AWESOME!!) give the aliens obstacles to work with, but the upper level is very open and difficult for the aliens to approach from. Eventaully, our marine strategy evolved into two groups, each with a well-defended grenade launcher lobbing grenades into the hive. I'm not sure if maybe it was TOO easy to pull that off (of course, the aliens won, so.....). It might (or might not) be necessary to add some more walls and/or corners (somehow) on the side of the hive room opposite the hive, so skulks and other melee aliens have more places from which to surprise the marines. The combination of grenade launcher, HMG, resupply, and welder seemed to make it very difficult for the aliens to keep those grenades off the hive. But then, their job is defending, so that huge room should be SWARMING with aliens, making it VERY difficult for the marines to hold a presence.

        Come to think of it, this is the first new CO map I've played since CO's objectives were redefined (aliens defend, marines attack). I think it does a very good job of accomodating those objectives. The hive room is very large and should be quite a challenge to defend. If the aliens attack, they have the ambush advantage on much of the map. While it does have long hallways on either side of it, the marine spawn area is smaller than that of some CO maps, giving the marines less of a ranged advantage if the aliens get inside. I disagree with Psi's suggestion that the obs box be changed. It's fine how it is and it should (and does) offer a hard challenge to aliens trying to get past mines to destroy it. It's easily destroyed if the marines don't protect it, but it should be very difficult to destroy if the marines invest in protecting it.

        I think many people will be turned off by the map's darkness in several spots. Personally, I *LOVE* the darkness. It makes the map so unique, especially considering the "illumination high" that beta4 seems to be on. In the interest of public acceptance, I think that, as often as possible, switches should be added to allow the players to toggle the lighting in battle-intensive areas. There was a large room last night that you said was broken.... the room where aliens and marines meet for the first time after leaving their respective spawns. It had lights that mysteriously were turned off, even though your build of the map specified they be turned on. But several of us LIKED this "bug". We LIKED fighting in the near-dark. The sewers from cs_militia's CT spawn to the backyard of the house were most fun because you never knew going in if it was going to be bright or dark. The switch on the CT side let the players decide in real time, and it drastically changed the decisions you had to make as you worked your way to the other end of the sewers. Togglable lighting would add a lot to certain areas of co_asterisk, and it would lessen the cries of frustration from those who fear the darkness.

        Man, the more I think about this map, I really, REALLY can't wait to play it with and against everyone. It's very, very fun. I wish I had more criticism, more useful information for improving it. But frankly, I just had a really, really good time last night, and that's where my energy seems to be, not on going out of my way to find things wrong with it.

        People sometimes tell me they wish they could write plugins. I feel the same way about maps. It seems so awesome to me that you can create a small world from scratch. You've done a great, great job, and I'm sure it will only get better. Thanks for the opportunity to playtest it. :)
        Last edited by Wyzcrak; 05-03-2004, 10:54 AM.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

          I believe that because the marines get an obs in their spawn, the aliens should get a Sensory directly under the hive. That should be balanced enough.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

            Originally posted by Emanon
            I believe that because the marines get an obs in their spawn, the aliens should get a Sensory directly under the hive. That should be balanced enough.
            I don't think the obs screws with balance that much, and I don't think that a sens in the hive is required if the obs stays. I do, however, think a sens in the hive would make the map MORE fun and MORE unique, just as the obs in marine spawn does.
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

              Originally posted by Wyzcrak
              I don't think the obs screws with balance that much, and I don't think that a sens in the hive is required if the obs stays. I do, however, think a sens in the hive would make the map MORE fun and MORE unique, just as the obs in marine spawn does.

              Agreed


              Originally posted by Big-B
              Looks and feels great, I would like to see more cover in the room that tycho was talking about moving the vent. Maybe a box or something near the door.
              What about a pipe that has fallen from the ceiling, there are already alot of boxes in the map.


              Again these are all minor details, GJ Asterisk

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                Ya know, I was just reading a thread in the CM forum at ns.org talking about removing the command chair from combat, as the marines' need to defend it contradicts the need for marines to attack. This thread is not for discussing whether or not the comm chair should be in combat, but something I read in that thread made me think of co_asterisk:

                The only problem I see witht his is that most co_ maps seem made for the old combat system and are not really suited for an alien hive-protective play-style.
                Now, that's just one player's opinion, but I think I liked co_asterisk because the hive room is so challenging for aliens to defend against any respectable number of marines.

                Another option, although radical, for making co_asterisk unique, is to put static defenses (mines? turrets?) in place around marine spawn (this idea isn't new, it's been tossed around before). It would increase the penalty and risk for aliens violating their objectives. Of course, then again, the best defense is a good offense, so who's to say that an alien in marine spawn is violating an objective?

                Anyway, just some thoughts.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                  This maps sounds pretty fricken sweet, hope I get a chance to play it on leave.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                    Biting the chair is free levels if nothing else and (since they took out aliens' free exp) I think should stay. Again - the marines shouldn't be defeated through this route if a good spawn system is implemented and if they're doing the job by hitting the hive.

                    Map sounds wonderful. Looking forward to seeing it on TG and everywhere else.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                      Let me start out by saying: great map!

                      I think everything that has been said, I pretty much agree with.

                      My comments:
                      • I think you should add another vent from somewhere in the hive room. Unless I missed some major ones, the vents that are there now don't do that much for me. Sometimes you need an extra way to get out of the hive as an alien if you are geting spawn camped. Make sure it doesn't allow for a marine w/ jp to just sit there and spam grenades tho; i like vents that start and ground level.
                      • I love the strobe light in the cargo room thinggie, just don't over do it. :)
                      • The platform/ramppy thing in the hive is too hard to get up on from the hive side as a skulk. maybe that is intentional, but I got frustrated when marines where up there, shooting. I couldn't go from the hive area to the front without getting sniped. (as a possible, easy solution, see point #1 :D


                      Other than that, good work. Very playable. You have a nice sense of proportion and fun-ness. I think that is something most mappers have trouble with. Also, the thing I think makes or breaks a map.

                      We talked about shrinking the map by a few percent. Don't bother, that is, unless you just really think you need to. I don't mind it the size it is.
                      --
                      CaveDog
                      "Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                        here are some screenshots from beta 3:
                        http://www.sapinski.com/ns/co_asterisk/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                          Thanks kow those are some great screens. i think i am going to hire yoiur as the official Asterisk Photographer. if you don't mind.
                          "The electric Yellow's got me by the brain banana!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                            Originally posted by Yellow-Asterisk
                            Thanks kow those are some great screens. i think i am going to hire yoiur as the official Asterisk Photographer. if you don't mind.
                            sounds like a plan yellow. btw, the colors were adjusted using auto adjust in acdsee. some look way too bright or washed out... but I kind of like the effect.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Co_Asterisk Feedback

                              I wouldn't make any changes to the way the obs is setup in the MS. With the advent of the timelimit, the aliens have no business camping cloaked in the rine spawn. I seriously think one of three things should happen anyways:
                              1. There is no CC in marine spawn.
                              2. The CC has an enormous amount of HP in that the marines could leave it undefended and only worry about an errant skulk gaining XP off of biting it, rather than loosing the game by doing a full man rush like they are supposed to.
                              3. The CC is invincible, but by not protecting it, the marines are hurt: best thing would just to give XP like it does now. But there could be other options.

                              Anyways, this really isn't the thread to discuss this. When I played the map, I could find nothing really wrong with it. It might be able to use a few more obstructions and choke points as I found it extremely easy to do fly-bys as a Lerk without fear of getting blocked. Other than that, I felt as if I was playing a stock CO map. In fact, I felt this map more balanced than the ones that came with NS.

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