Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Aliens Lose

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Aliens Lose

    It's not so much the whoring of res that gets the aliens down, it's the fact that it takes a team of *good* skulks to keep the marines from taking all the nodes in the first minute of the game. Then it takes a really good fade to throw them off in the midgame long enough for the rest of the chumps to get two hive upgrades to win. I don't even know how to begin to solve this. I haven't seen an alien win (at least an *earned* win) in days now.

    What the heck is going on? If playing aliens is no fun becaue the marines always trounce them - then no one will want to play that side and then we don't have any NS games any more :(

    I blame Wyz for a lot of electrifying, too.

  • #2
    Re: Aliens Lose

    There is a first for everything.
    I'd like to see someone come to TG and say the game is unbalanced.
    Unless enigma is playing at the time.
    Then it is balanced against the team lacking him :P


    I don't (completely) Blame lack of skill in skulks. On the Marine side of things, most, if not all, listen to the commanders orders here. They may not be to the letter, but if it were to the letter, we would have another problem. The commanders I see in the chair ussually, in comparison to other places I play myself, are above average.
    I've been commanding myself in games outside of the TG recently. I've gotten marines to listen and to be aggressive. Very aggressive. Aliens in other places expect marines to move out as a large group in the same direction. They get chewed up. I haven't been bothering to electrify. I have equipment and upgrades out so fast the alien's heads go into a spin. That is using TG strategy.
    Now that we have a solid strategy for the marines, a counter strategy needs to be developed for the Aliens. An example would be having 3 aliens gorge as soon as the game starts and build 3 chambers of some type. while that hurts the management of nodes, that could help with weak skulks. It's just an example though.
    Last edited by Vendetta; 05-25-2004, 02:44 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Aliens Lose

      Originally posted by Vendetta
      a counter strategy needs to be developed for the Aliens
      Herein lies the heart of the solution, no matter the problem presented by the marines. And the reason the aliens are losing is leadership, plain and simple. The commanders who command here do so with an iron fist. When they say jump, marines jump. They've earned the marines' respect by showing that they can give the marines what they need to play well if they'll simply work with the commander.

      The result is an entire team working off the leadership and coordination of one player they trust. In the games that have this characteristic on the alien team (and anything close to even skillsets on the two sides), the alien fare much better. Instead, what we typically have is several aliens following their own agenda. This needs to change, and this will change.

      When I came to TG, I brought teamwork to the alien team like TG had never been seen before. The marines took time to react, and all was well. When the distress beacon came along, I showed the aliens that 7 seconds can often be too long if you plan to keep your second hive after losing your first. The aliens took time to react, and all was well. I'm not the only person to bring new strategy to this place, but we always take time to react, and all is always well in time. 3.x allows for so many possibilities... this will be no different.. someone or a group of players will set us straight in time.

      Specifics? The aliens need to get over NS' FPS and focus on its RTS. Run past the marines and chew their nodes. It's almost PREDICTABLE now, my starting skulk tactic on ns_veil. Hide in the vent at west and wait for the marine to finish the node. When he's (they're) about halfway to overlook, I hop out of the vent and start chewing the node. Screw the marines. They can walk the whole map if they want to, as long as they don't keep their nodes for more than 60 seconds. Obviously it gets more complicated as the game progresses, but the aliens will win if they're so successful in suppressing the marine nodes.
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Aliens Lose

        I agree completely with Wyz.

        In fact, when we used to play more competitively, the role of every alien would be decided before the game started. So and so was going to save for the hive, another so and so was going to save for fade, such and such was going to cover this side of the map, two others were going to gorge for res nodes, etc.

        Now it seems like a free for all, with little communication and less cohesion. I look forward to it changing for the better. :icon14:

        3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Aliens Lose

          I've mentioned to Wyz about the number of truely one sided pounding the aliens have recieved from the marines. This is not a game issue, it's a player issue.

          In these games, I've noticed the following:
          1. no one gives a plan with how they are going to spend their res. When asked they either don't answer or have some smart-assed comment (I've seen a game where two people faded without asking, then both died because no one dropped DF).
          2. Only 1-2 res nodes get dropped.
          3. Seeing two skulks running around near an alien res that is being knifed by one marine and asking them to do something about it is met with silence, and the node is lost.

          Then teammates begin to bitch about slow res intake and you get the pub with 50 res running around marine start doing nothing of value. Then they say something like "I can't get anywhere to drop a node/chamber/hive." It's pathetic because I can see you on the minimap running around like an idiot. I'd vote kick them but all that res would just be gone, and we would still loose.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Aliens Lose

            ugh, well after i typed this up i closed the window.. so lemme see if i can retype it in a nutshell.
            The problem with the aliens is that they are more of a communist society, unlike the marines, so they have to learn to trust each other, spend their res correctly, and play for the hive mind. with pubbers coming in and out, is not exactly helping the this. Unless the aliens change to more of a democratic society, like the marines, or learn to play this way.. they arent meant to surive. gg darwin.



            After the 1.04-2.0 jump aliens require much much more team work, i guess not everyone as learned that yet.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Aliens Lose

              Originally posted by Tempus
              when we used to play more competitively
              I highly recommend that players who have never scrimmed the top clans do so. It teaches you the finer points of team-based coordination and trust. A few aspects of clan play turn me away, but I can speak positively of it in that light.

              Also, if a player isn't for this server, work to remove them regardless of the game's state. Sure, this game is lost, but everyone else on the server (potentially NEW players, but even if it's regulars) gets reinforced to them the fact that we have very strict communication standards for players who want to play here.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Aliens Lose

                Perhaps a server policy: If you are going to whore for something (ups, hive, lifeform), you must inform the team at the beginning of the match.

                I wish they would just give the Aliens a Queen and get it over with.

                Wyz, where would you recommend I go to scrim top clans?
                Rm 14:2 NIV
                One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Aliens Lose

                  haha... you'd need to be in a clan first...

                  chortle. but after that #findnsscrim on the gamesurge irc network will get you far :)

                  just get a team of 6~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Aliens Lose

                    I agree the aggressiveness of marines is much higher than aliens due to the fact that it takes so much longer to drop a resource tower. This leads to many other problems.

                    Marines have 7 players: 1comm, 1 base builder, 5 offence/res builders
                    Aliens have 7 players: 3-4 gorges that take about 2X as long to build+gest, 3-4 skulks <marines.


                    We already, well atleast when im playing, Call out what we are going to do, still sometimes it doesnt help.


                    *Edit*
                    Clan play, The only difference between what they do and what we have on good TG games is that they all can BH and have great aim and also react quicker.

                    + a few different strats that usually wont work without the well oiled machine of a clan.
                    Last edited by Emanon; 05-24-2004, 12:08 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Aliens Lose

                      Originally posted by Tempest
                      Wyz, where would you recommend I go to scrim top clans?
                      Actually, it is not necessary to be in a clan to scrim against clans, or play with their members.

                      Actually, nspug is a ... decent start.

                      ...from the nspug.com FAQ :

                      What is a "pug"?
                      Pug is an acronym for “Pick-Up Game”, which describes a type of gaming that falls between public play and clan matches. Usually, 12 random people from the channel will get together to pug. Sometimes, clans will also ask for a pug team to scrim against.

                      How do I get on #nspug?
                      #nspug is an IRC channel on the GameSurge IRC network. The easiest way to get on the IRC network is downloading the client mIRC from www.mIRC.com. After installing mIRC, connect to a GameSurge server by typing /server irc.gamesurge.net. Once connected, type /join #nspug.

                      How do I get help?
                      You can either type '.help' in the channel to see a list of commands, or check the PUGBot commands list thread in this forum. If you still require assistance, use /msg PUGBot .admin <message> to talk to an admin.

                      How do you pick teams?
                      The two people who volunteered to be captains in the channel pick teams once everyone is on the server.

                      What type of game is played?
                      Typically played is a simulated CAL match, with friendly-fire and a 45 minute time-limit enforced, in addition to other aspects of mp_tournamentmode 1.
                      Generally, interaction with the average clanners leaves me with a disinterest in repeating that interaction. However, I'd be happy to saddle up with a few guys who haven't experienced it (and some who have) and go play some PUGs, if it means helping people experience the next level of teamplay.

                      Just like TG, I've played games (rounds, scrims, matches, whatever) on #nspug where teamwork was a joke. Like TG, it's simply a restricted public environment. But, like TG, it can display the finer points of teamwork and communication.

                      Otherwise, Sasuke's suggestion is helpful.
                      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Aliens Lose

                        yeah, but he wanted to scrim against top clans. not a single top clan is going to scrim a pug team.

                        pugs are fine for starting out.

                        and the strats are definitely more varied and map-oriented when it comes to the good clans. the lower-tier clans play like the good games on TG.


                        (btw, i'd like to point out that the 7v7 aspect of TG makes it marine-biased. cut it down to 6v6 and you'll be seeing more even victories. i'm not saying 50/50, but aliens would go farther based on their current level of teamwork/skill)

                        EDIT: oh yeah, and i'd also like to say that the lack of a good fade really hurts the alien team. in half of the alien games, no one goes fade, and everyone stays as skulk and complains when heavies turn the corner. in half of the games where the fade actually makes a timely appearance, he gets owned instantly whether because of luck or simple lack of skill. That last fourth (for those of you keeping score at home) are when the "good games" happen. and when wyz gets pissed off and moans about the unbalance of fades.

                        EDITx2:
                        and as a side note, am i the only one who doesn't understand what emanon's talking about at all?
                        Aliens have 7 players: 3-4 gorges that take about 2X as long to build+gest, 3-4 skulks<marines
                        3-4 gorges that take about 2x as long to build+gest??? 3-4 skulks < marines??? what's going on? are we playing the same game?
                        Last edited by Sasuke; 05-24-2004, 01:21 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Aliens Lose

                          Originally posted by Sasuke
                          3-4 gorges that take about 2x as long to build+gest??? 3-4 skulks < marines
                          Perhaps this is better:

                          Three to four of the aliens, at any given time, are gorges. For them to gestate into and out of gorge and drop the node takes twice the amount of time that it takes for a marine to build a node that the commander has dropped for him.

                          With so many gorges, there are three or four offensive players on the alien team. This number is notably less than the number of marine offensive units on the map during this time.
                          Yes, I understood the above just fine (not judging its validity). But someone else didn't, and it's because Ema took shortcuts explaining himself. Food for thought: laying out your thoughts clearly and fully is rarely a waste of your time or anyone else's.
                          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Aliens Lose

                            Originally posted by Tempest
                            Perhaps a server policy: If you are going to whore for something (ups, hive, lifeform), you must inform the team at the beginning of the match.

                            I wish they would just give the Aliens a Queen and get it over with.

                            Wyz, where would you recommend I go to scrim top clans?
                            Get 6 people and clans will scrim you all day long =P.

                            Some clans will hand your asses back to you on a silver platter and say "thanks, that was fun" Others are a complete joke =P.

                            .wmd will hand you your ass =P

                            Should get some friends on team speak and get them organized that way, or if you have a ventrilo server.

                            If you go pug, you will play with clanners, that aren't with their team, and teamwork takes a serious hit. #nspug is nice for playing with people who are pretty damn good and comparing them with yourself, but other then that, it's nothing more than playing with a server full of people who know how to play the game and can aim/skulk/fade really well. If you want to see teamwork at it's finest you'd have to look at the competitive envrionment. If you want a more immidiate view of the teamwork that goes on, you can join HLTV servers while there is a match in progress, since HLTV works now =) Sunday is the default match day for CAL, the major league. I have no idea what UGL is, they are a total joke if you ask me, admins are ascinine.

                            Anyway, long story short.

                            #nspug
                            #findnsscrim
                            HLTV servers.

                            -

                            If you like the clan scene...
                            #findnsclan

                            Also, there is a clan, pandas, that holds some events on teaching you tips on how to play sometimes, like helpful hints and such. They have been known to teach bunny hopping and other more advanced things as well.
                            #pandas

                            .wmd's channel
                            #weapons
                            Last edited by NothingMore.; 05-24-2004, 03:00 PM.
                            - 52

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Aliens Lose

                              Does it really matter who wins though as long as you have fun? Seriously guys... winning isnt everything.

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X