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  • #61
    Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

    Note: When I use "we", it can refer to either .wmd or the cal clan community in general.

    Originally posted by TheFeniX
    1. Anyone can do it.
    Anyone can do anything in a computer game. Anyone can be an awesome marine or a great fade. Anyone can use a tactic or an exploit. The argument is whether it's right or wrong to use it, and on what basis.
    Originally posted by TheFeniX
    2. We game competitively so we know better than you do.
    The original Veterans were the best clans that emerged at the time. They were given special status because they knew nearly everything about the game from countless times playing it. Playtesters are almost exclusively from the clan community, and are responsible for finding issues in the game worth changing. I'd say we DO know better than most players, because we're responsible and won't say "omg that should be removed because <insert stupid reasoning here>".
    Originally posted by TheFeniX
    3. We don't need these tactics because we're still better than you
    We don't. Individually and as a team, we're better than anything a pub server could put forward. We could use no scripts or "engine exploits" or modified sprites/models/sounds, and still pound people to pieces like we do now. If you don't believe me, we'll organize a 7v7 tonight, wmd against tg regulars. You know the outcome already.
    Originally posted by TheFeniX
    4. If it wasn't supposed to be done, the devs would fix it (which is funny when people try to justify bunny-hop scripts because it's an inherent flaw in any FPS that allows jumping and no stamina meter).
    Bunnyhopping isn't a flaw in any FPS, it's only in Quake based games. In fact it was enhanced in certain Quake games by making so that if you hit the jump key while in the air, you jump as soon as you touch the ground, negating the need to bind jump to a mousewheel or use a bhop script (_special or otherwise). It is a simple piece of code that allows for air acceleration, and it could be very easily removed by any game developer, but for the most part it hasn't. In NS it was removed from marines but KEPT for aliens, because it does nothing but help the aliens fill their role of being fast aggressive killing machines. Flayra allowed aliens to keep bunnyhopping. If he did not want aliens to bunnyhop, he WOULD have fixed it already.

    Edits:
    JO = Jedi Outcast
    JA = Jedi Academy
    ^For that person that asked

    Pistol rate of fire is capped at 5 shots per second now, which is humanly possible to do. A script can't break the rate of fire, in fact most pistol scripts are terribly written and suck, getting people killed when they shouldn't.
    Last edited by TheAdj`; 06-19-2004, 02:19 PM.

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    • #62
      Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

      Originally posted by Wyzcrak
      Screen resolutions, speaker quality, monitor brightness, amounts of RAM.... these are all inequalities as well. Some inequalities are unaviodable due to the nature of the sport, but, as you've said, at least understand when you're creating inequality and when you're not.
      It's a matter of personal preference. The fact that I have a very good computer and and (FINALLY) a good internet connection is because I pay the price for it. I made sure I had a viable platform to play on. I make sure my control setup fits me, and that my screen looks a certain way so that I can interact in the best way possible. I change all of the fonts so that everything is smaller and cleaner, I use different crosshairs that are smaller and cleaner than the defaults (with exception of the shotgun crosshair, it's huge). It's a matter of what you want to play like.

      If you want to get frustrated every time you die because you can't get more than 15 fps in large rooms, or because you don't have a mousewheel on your 6 year old mouse, or because you're left handed and the default controls are clumsy and difficult to use, I guess you can use all defaults and keep everyone equal. Some people still play on a 500 MHz clunker from 1999, the only way to keep everyone equal would be to cap FPS at around 30, use 2 buttons on the mouse, and use default controls. Don't forget a default config setup, since changing your rates lets you take advantage of your superior internet connection. Some people live in non-broadband areas, and have at best ISDN or IDSL, so they don't get **** for a connection. Better keep everything in config.cfg at the defaults so we can all stay the same.

      I hope everyone caught the stupidity of the paragraph above this. It's pointless to argue how settings and such cause inequalities. It's not equal because none of us are the same, or have the same hardware. I have an awesome computer, but only a decent internet connection by comparison to others. I'm left-handed, so the default controls don't work for me at all. There are inherent inequalities that we can't overcome unless we lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator, which simply won't happen. Arguing that inequality in the game is caused by crosshairs falls in line with this. The shotgun hasn't changed, it's always been like this. pandas | axe told me about shotty sniping when I was still new (we're friends from elsewhere) and I've always known about the shot pattern.

      I guess knowledge of such a thing existing is an inequality too. Sometimes I wish people would keep this knowledge to themselves so we wouldn't have to deal with moaning and crying some people just have to do. People should be more appreciative and try to get better instead of playing the "omg exploit" game. Ever wonder why some people in the clan community are complete asshats? It's because they get tired of being banned from every other public server for such things as "jetpack scripting", "aimbotting", "speed hacks", and the infamous "medpack scripting". Apparently it's not possible to be difficult to hit with a jetpack, not miss skulks that run at you down a long hallway, bunnyhop down a hallway at around 500 speed as a skulk, or accurately drop medpacks on marines under attack. You wanted to know why we (wmd) play here often? We won't be banned for being at the top of the scoreboard at the end of the round. I play on other servers and get banned frequently. I go pubbing with titanium often, and we'll absolutely dominate the server. He went over 100+ kills in 15 minutes on one of NAR's server, I was comming. Shortly after the start of the next round we were both banned, myself for "medpack scripting" and titanium for "aimbotting". You think we enjoy being unable to play anywhere without being derided and banned constantly? Some servers harass Vets from the moment they join the server until they get banned or leave.

      My point is you should be happy that the clan community shares it's information and tech with you. The fact that we do shows that we attempt to bridge the inequalities created by possessing the knowledge. We could hoard it and beat you over the head with it until you ban us, but we don't. Other communities don't have such an open relationship, yet for some reason the NS community STILL can't accept the clan community for what it is. We could just come on the server, own you and make fun of you, then leave, and never tell you HOW we owned you. Instead we come on the server, play with you and talk to you, and if you ask how we did something, we tell you or direct you somewhere to learn how. Amazing isn't it? In StarCraft, I know I didn't tell other players how to Reaver Drop when it was new. I know in TFC I didn't tell people how to conc jump when it became difficult to perform in 1.1.0.0. In NS I daily show people how to do things that they didn't know how to do. How about instead of the flaming and calling everything we show the NS Community an "exploit" or a "hack on the engine", you simply treat it as part of the game, and be thankful for the knowledge that's shared. Remember the alternative.

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      • #63
        Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

        This is where I would post something smartassish.... but I think I'll just let wyzcrak handle it..

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        • #64
          Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

          Im kinda glad I jumped out of this one when I could, I believe there are more important issues than the crosshair. Im suprised this kind of arguement wasnt brought up during the ex_interp change, it has a much greater effect on gameplay than the crosshair and it was only known by clan members till someone brought it up as a bug. Now everyone knows, because I relayed the information.

          I was angry that the ability to change this variable was kept secret.

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          • #65
            Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

            It makes people feel better to blame "hacks" when, truth is, some people are just *better*. It's a game - games take skill and thought - and some people are going to have more skill than most everyone else. That's the way it is. I know often I want to blame "hacks" or "scripts" or ... for my deaths - until I remember that 95% of the time, I just got out-skilled (the other 4.9% is me being stupid [ha ha] and the other .1% I really wonder about).

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            • #66
              Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

              <3 for paranoid -- you're in the 95% category :)

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              • #67
                Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                Worst unevenness ever? Having a Radeon9800 pro and still only having a soyo k7v dragon+... therefor my expensive radeon is only working at 4x agp, when it can be 8x agp.... half capacity.. makes me mad :P


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                • #68
                  Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                  Originally posted by Emanon
                  Im kinda glad I jumped out of this one when I could, I believe there are more important issues than the crosshair. Im suprised this kind of arguement wasnt brought up during the ex_interp change, it has a much greater effect on gameplay than the crosshair and it was only known by clan members till someone brought it up as a bug. Now everyone knows, because I relayed the information.

                  I was angry that the ability to change this variable was kept secret.
                  Most people in the ns clan community didn't know about interp until recently, so don't be too upset. I knew about it from TFC discussions 3 years ago, but it seemed locked so I left it at that, until recently.

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                  • #69
                    Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                    I'm not going to deny that the altered shotgun crosshair creates an imbalance. If you use it you're at an advantage. Okay, sure. Unlike many of the comparisons brought up here, however, this isn't an exploit or a cheap tactic or a script. You still have to aim the shotgun just like you always have, but now it works properly. That's it, that's all. It was a flaw that existed in the previous crosshair and this is a clientside fix that corrects it.

                    There are a lot of universally accepted client changes that do that sort of thing. Changing your rates, for example; Steam's default rates are not functional for a lot of people, and altering them can result in a marked improvement in your performance by fixing a flaw in the client. But the only way anyone finds out how to do that is by looking up the info online or hearing about it from someone else. The recent ex_interp fix is the same, and the way to fix it is even more unnatural and hack-ish. What if there was an unofficial clientside patch that completely fixed the shotgun hitbox bug for your client, but people had to go to the forums to get it? Would you guys be for or against that?

                    Most customizations of this nature offer an advantage. The question is where the line is to be drawn. Some things, like pistol scripts and exploits, give the user effectiveness beyond what was intended, and I think the line can definitely be drawn there. Fixes like this, however, are simply restoring the normal functions of the game to what they were supposed to be at in the first place. Sure it's true that people who aren't keeping up with the community aren't aware of the ability to make these improvements, but what do you suggest we do about it? Would you rather that everyone be forced to deal with a bug that is already fixable on a clientside basis?

                    Anyone who knows that they're at a disadvantage to this has the ability to correct it. Those who don't, aren't going to be upset about it. As the saying goes, what they don't know won't hurt them. I don't want to be at an advantage; I hope this along with the ex_interp thing is fixed in beta 5 so everyone has access to the more functional shotgun. Until then, I'm not going to willingly put up with a bug like that just for a small sense of equality. This is a problem that has no real solution; as long as the issue exists somebody's going to be hurt by it.

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                    • #70
                      Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                      I dont know about anyone else but most of the damn time im shooting an alien point blank and it doesnt matter anyway!

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                      • #71
                        Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                        Originally posted by Zek
                        Some things, like pistol scripts
                        The pistol ROF was capped at 5 shots a second so that it wasn't super exploitive to script it. It's not unintended to fire it that fast, it's very intended.

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                        • #72
                          Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                          but i think the fact that you can "always" shoot at 5 shots per sec is just retarted.

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                          • #73
                            Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                            I think the fact that the pistol fires its first 5 shots faster then the lmg is just retarded..

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                            • #74
                              Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                              Originally posted by Emanon
                              but i think the fact that you can "always" shoot at 5 shots per sec is just retarted.
                              Binding to the mwheel will get you the same thing, and more reliably, than a script. For instance - you can stop mid-fire, change speed depending on your acquisition, etc. Scripts execute without pause - a danger more than benefit for the pistol.

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                              • #75
                                Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                                man, why does everyone talk about pistol scripting...

                                i can fire max rate 80% of the time w/o the script and 40% of the time with the script. there goes your imbalance.

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