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  • #76
    Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

    Originally posted by Sasuke
    man, why does everyone talk about pistol scripting...

    i can fire max rate 80% of the time w/o the script and 40% of the time with the script. there goes your imbalance.
    90% of stats are made up.

    Thats fine with if you have the skill then NP, but the ones who use it..........

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    • #77
      Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

      I think I can fire the pistol pretty fast with out a script..

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      • #78
        Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

        To answer your question, Sasuke, people talk about the pistol scripts so often for the same reason that those who use them USE them... most people... MOST people CANNOT do by hand what the pistol scripts offer. Scripts that fire the pistol don't just prevent firing delay... the prevent your hand, and therefore your crosshairs, from moving as your index finger presses MOUSE1 five times... they can prevent you from wondering if you ended that melee with 4 bullets instead of 5... they can prevent you from wondering how many shots you really fired. Most people can't do all of these things at the same time during a firefight as effectively as the scripts can. That is why the scripts get the attention they do, and that is why such scripts create inequality. Again, that inequality may be justifiable to some, but it's still inequality.

        Originally posted by Zek
        I'm not going to deny that the altered shotgun crosshair creates an imbalance. If you use it you're at an advantage. Okay, sure. Unlike many of the comparisons brought up here, however, this isn't an exploit or a cheap tactic or a script. You still have to aim the shotgun just like you always have, but now it works properly. That's it, that's all. It was a flaw that existed in the previous crosshair and this is a clientside fix that corrects it.
        Thank you, Zek. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Let me spotlight what Zek has done. He's owned the fact that he's creating an imbalance. He hasn't denied it, he hasn't accused the people concerned about it of throwing out aimbot claims, he hasn't presented his reasons for why it isn't an imbalance. As I've said until I'm blue in the face... all I want is for people to realize it's an imbalance. Once someone has the confidence to admit an imbalance, or inequality, they'll sometimes find that I am just as prepared as they are to justify its use (as I've done in this thread regarding resolutions, etc.. and as Zek did regarding rates).

        It is not pointless to identify what is an imbalance and what isn't. Disagreeing about an imbalance's validity is one thing. But it reflects very poorly on you, in my opinion, when you insist on insisting that the imbalance does not even exist, despite the fact that you know otherwise. If you play on this server every day because we hold a higher respect for you and your skill than you get elsewhere, assume you'll get that respect in the forums, too. It really isn't necessary that you always be on the defensive, or that you scream OMGGETOVERIT when someone raises a viewpoint you can't endorse.

        NS will come and go. But the people you meet in the game will likely outlast the game. In real life, we're judged by our accountability (among other things). It's annoying when someone denies that a custom crosshair is a client modification just so they can be right or justified at any cost. It reflects poorly on someone. If you're going to come here to play because you're held to a higher standard, expect to be held to a higher standard in our forums as well. Debate why you do something, but don't debate what you're doing.
        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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        • #79
          Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

          Originally posted by TheAdj`
          The pistol ROF was capped at 5 shots a second so that it wasn't super exploitive to script it. It's not unintended to fire it that fast, it's very intended.
          Yes, but it's much, much easier to aim those shots when you only have to click a button instead of rapid firing. Your mouse won't move from the fast clicking and you won't be distracted from aiming by it. It obviously mproves your game, otherwise you wouldn't use a script for it. Thus, it gives you an advantage. Maybe you have unnaturally steady hands and can move your mouse around aiming at a skulk while simultaneously rapid firing the mouse button 5 times a second without even a slight loss of accuracy, but if this were the case then you wouldn't be using a script in the first place.

          Don't try to deny the fact that pistol scripts give you an advantage and thus create an imbalance, however small. We all know that they do. The only argument here is what sort of advantages gained through client modification are justifiable, and to what extent. When I said that pistol scripts give you an advantage beyond what is intended, I meant that the intended behavior of a pistol is that it's supposed to be a little hard to rapid fire accurately due to the aforementioned factors. If that weren't the case then it would autofire at 5 shots per second, or fire a couple rounds per click. The pistol script overrides this limiting factor to make the pistol much more powerful.

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          • #80
            Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

            it's not much MUCH easier, i think you're exaggerating.

            the shotty crosshair doesn't make anything much much easier. as paranoid said earlier, it doesn't suddenly improve your aim. it only helps you guide your shots just a TINY bit more.

            all of these imbalances are absolutely NOTHING compared to the differences in skill between players. You might as well whine about pings as well, cuz they cause imbalances.

            sure, the imbalances exist, but as even zek says, they are small. if you really wanted to get rid of the imbalances, you'd have to ban noobs and vets and only keep the "middle range" of players.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

              Reading this thread with an open mind makes me lean more to the side of the that It tcauses an imbalance just by the tone that those players took, lobbing your way with a positive attitude goes a long..........

              I originally thought it didnt matter but things change.
              Last edited by Emanon; 06-20-2004, 08:36 PM.

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              • #82
                Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                Originally posted by Emanon
                Reading this thread with an open mind makes me lean more to the side of the that It tcauses an imbalance just by the tone that those players took, lobbing your way with a positive attitude goes a long..........

                I originally thought it didnt matter but things change.
                i'm now thoroughly confused...

                instead of actually looking at content, you looked at the tone of the message?

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                  while we're on the subject -- here's another post that's an "interesting read"

                  http://www.natural-selection.org/for...opic=73105&hl=

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                    Originally posted by Sasuke
                    i'm now thoroughly confused...

                    instead of actually looking at content, you looked at the tone of the message?

                    Everyone brings up great content but when you have two groups debating something and one is coming across arrogant and putting down the other group with demoralizing adjectives it makes a huge difference. You will notice in life its easy to get places when you word things correctly and be carefull not to affend people. Just look at the wording you have been using vs Zek or Howard Dean vs Kerry and we all know what happend there. :icon23:

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                      so.... suck up to people and you win? it worked for wyzcrak :>

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                        Pfft. I slept my way to the top.
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                          It's very possible to make the exact same argument without putting anyone down. You don't have to sacrifice your beliefs to be respectful. I really have no idea why most clanners seem to have a hard time comprehending that.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                            Meh. Clanners say pubbers are to blame, pubbers say clanners are to blame. Nothing is ever that simple.

                            You can't teach people about respect, really.... especially teenagers, or anyone older. You just have to learn it for yourself. You have to learn how to show it, how to earn it, and how to decide when it's simply not worth showing or earning. Respect is critical to truely helping someone else. Without it, you're simply reinforcing to them that you know more than they do.

                            For better or for worse, respect (or, at the very least, the appearance of it) is a requirement to play here. Skill isn't. :/
                            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                              I've stayed out of this as I can't play as much as I would like. Know what would impress me?
                              <----- One of these.


                              :icon14:
                              I do what I can.

                              cpgf: (n.) Acronym describing a significant other who has not yet acheived full spousal status and is in possession of a cable modem; of note because at YOUR house, you still have dial-up -- and crappy dialup at that.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: you guys with accurate shotgun 'enhancement'

                                That's a good start. ;) Well said, Santal.
                                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                                Comment

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