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  • Randomizing Teams

    Hey Guys! As of late, it seems that there have been more unbalanced games on the server than usual. I think the problem stems from two facts: 1) I have seen quite a few new people on the server (new not only to the server, but also NS) and 2) It seems like there are less admins and members on the server recently who have the power to randomize the teams.
    I am posting this to generate a discussion on what might be the best way to keep the games even, because there have been some pretty depressing games recently. It's obvious that friends or clan members would want to play together often. It's also obvious that most people would rather join a team with say Emanon on it than a team with NSplayer on it (or even snappy for that matter! :P).
    For the most part, I like the random team generation. Although it sometimes generates some pretty lopsided teams, it usually does a good job of splitting up the "please use CD here" complainers.
    One thought I had was maybe to give more people the power to randomize the teams... or just always have random team assignment on. A thought Tempest had was coming up with a way of somehow weighting certain players, which might be a more complex strategy than anyone would want to implement.
    Of course, for the most part, these lopsided games happen when few regulars and TG members are on the server.
    Anyway, what do you guys think? I know we all hate joining a team that we know apriori has a 90% chance of getting killed in the first 5 minutes. I'd think we'd all rather go watch the catbus for those 5 minutes.

  • #2
    Re: Randomizing Teams

    its those damn stacking wmd folks

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    • #3
      Re: Randomizing Teams

      A decision prior to this thread has resulted in temp admins gaining access to amx_random. I'm going to implement this in the next few days. I don't mean to stop this thread or its brainstorming, but do keep this in mind.

      I thought about making amx_random occur automatically after the map change when 9 or more players were on the server, but I was advised that this was a bad idea because admins sometimes use discretion when using amx_random, allowing people to discuss the previous game or address other needs they have before randomizing the teams.

      The days of people complaining about random teams are long gone, and I'd be happy to enable amx_random to be automatic (with X number of players present, and likely on NS maps only) if we can agree on way to do it such that it doesn't annoy the hell out of us.

      Perhaps we could put a N-second delay on joining a team when the map changes. This gives people time to load and discuss whatever it is they need to discuss before the round starts. At the end of the timer (everyone is still in the readyroom at this point), amx_random kicks off. It's just a thought. Discuss.
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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      • #4
        Re: Randomizing Teams

        Two suggestions which would fix this:

        1.) Give members a command to randomize the teams like the admins have now. There's almost always one online with a large game. Just make sure they know how to use it...

        2.) Personally I think we should get it over with and implement an auto-randomizing plugin. Wait maybe 10-15 seconds after the map starts(to compensate for load times and team preferences) and then randomize everyone. In a perfect world, people who truly would rather play one team could join it right away, but it would be randomized before anyone could join based on the players.

        From what I've seen, almost everybody prefers the teams to be randomized. When an admin is on, everyone just sort of loafs around in the ready room until he randomizes. I think I speak for most of us when I say we prefer that over stacking, but sometimes it's hard to will yourself to join the team full of No-CDs who didn't do anything but talk about Counter-Strike last game. Personally I'd rather it be automated just because many of the members don't seem familiar with their in-game options.

        Edit: If we want to allow people to talk about whatever in the ready room, though it's rarely necessary, we can just do what Wyz said; put maybe a 15 second delay(from the first person to finish loading) on joining teams, announce the availability with a sound and text, and randomize something like 5-7 seconds after that. A little more complicated and I don't really think it's necessary, but it would fix that problem.

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        • #5
          Re: Randomizing Teams

          Maybe we could have the randomize be automatic UNLESS an admin cancels it within, say, 15 seconds of showing up in the ready room. That way if there were something warranting discussion, an admin could kill the clock. Otherwise, random would kick in.

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          • #6
            Re: Randomizing Teams

            To all those reading this: make a comment. If the admins work to create a solution to this based on what WAS posted in this thread, I don't want people who didn't post complaining about what we came up with.
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

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            • #7
              Re: Randomizing Teams

              I agree that something needs to be done.

              post++

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Randomizing Teams

                To be more serious, I like the idea of the amx_random going off unless an admin stops it within say 30 seconds of the map change. Plenty of time for people to "stack" if'n they want to - and it gets people out of the ready room. I've been on servers before that forced random teams (eg you couldn't actually join the team you wanted to no matter what) and that's been less palatable than amx_random at an admin's discretion. OTO - you might want to think about seprating folks if they continue to stack and it draws down the quality of play (eg 6 people from pandas vs. the No C-D clan) and people are threatening to leave. A few games "stacked" is OK - but shouldn't be the norm. Mix it up a bit - play against your buddies and brag about pwning them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Randomizing Teams

                  If randomize is to be automatic, it has to be fast enough that people don't have time to pile onto the first team to get a good player; otherwise the point is moot. I've seen admins randomize the game basically as soon as the map starts and no one has ever complained. I really don't think an immediate randomization would be a big deal.

                  What if it were a text command for everyone that randomizes the game as soon as maybe 2-3 people type it(think "ready" for tourney mode)? That way there's no admin or member presence required, RR discussions can be continued as long as people want, and people who are irritated at being stacked against have the power to immediately prevent it in the next game. Just have a tooltip at the start of every round that says "Type /random to randomize the teams." and when a couple of people do it the game randomizes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Randomizing Teams

                    Hmmm. I know amx can force ready-room, too. That could be implemented to get true "random" teams by forcing everyone to the ready-room, then randomizing teams. Never a stack again.

                    Just a thought. I'm not changing what I said above, but it might spur some thought in someone else.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Randomizing Teams

                      Originally posted by I'm with stupid
                      Hmmm. I know amx can force ready-room, too. That could be implemented to get true "random" teams by forcing everyone to the ready-room, then randomizing teams. Never a stack again.
                      The problem with that is that people get fed up with being randomized onto the same team a couple games in a row, or a team they just don't feel like playing at the time. There's no harm in letting people join their team of preference before anyone else joins since they obviously aren't stacking anything yet.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Randomizing Teams

                        So far we have:

                        Auto randomizing, to do this right though, we would need a timedelay where team portals are disabled.

                        In conjunction to this we would still need to give the admins or temp admins the random command because what is to stop people from pressing F4 and then spectating.
                        Last edited by Emanon; 06-22-2004, 12:39 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Randomizing Teams

                          Giving the temp admin access to AMX_random (as wyz suggested) fixes all these problems.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Randomizing Teams

                            Originally posted by bobislongenough
                            its those damn stacking wmd folks
                            Damn them... For all the times they kill me and for all the times they are on the same team!

                            Errr... Faith has no connection with .wmd what so ever.

                            (sig)

                            Seriously though, we try not to stack :D
                            - 52

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Randomizing Teams

                              Originally posted by NothingMore.
                              Damn them... For all the times they kill me and for all the times they are on the same team!

                              Errr... Faith has no connection with .wmd what so ever.

                              (sig)

                              Seriously though, we try not to stack :D

                              It has been noticed, plus random kind of prevents that.

                              Comment

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