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  • Require a Mic of Commanders?

    Several people have asked me to just "make it so" regarding this, but I've decided to get input from the players.

    Should we allow ourselves a rule which, simply put, requires that commanders use a microphone?

    I could go into the reasonings behind this, but most of you know the reasons by heart. Several of you have recited them to me during the last 48 hours alone, but this problem is as old as NS itself.

    Don't worry about HOW to enforce this rule just yet. This thread is only to discuss whether or not we want the rule at all.
    18
    Yes.
    50.00%
    9
    No.
    50.00%
    9
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

    Here's my two cents: If somebody with a mic wants to comm, they should have priority over someone without a mic. If someone without a mic gets in the chair, a prospective mic'ed comm should (at least in the first 30 seconds of the game) be able to verbally boot an incumbant mic-less commander. That way, if nobody wants to comm, a mic-less commander can feel free to take the helm - nobody loses out. But given a choice between two comms, the mic is mightier than the keyboard.

    Just today, a couple of games in a row, even though I didn't especially feel like comming, I was dragooned into hopping in the chair because nobody else volunteered. Hopefully that won't sound like I'm complaining - I do appreciate the vote of confidence. However, if someone without a mic came along, (and one did) and can do a decent job of comming sans mic, then I don't mind letting them have a go. I think, on the TG server anyway, marines do a pretty good job of adapting to communicating amongst themselves on details of what to do, filling in the details for the mute commander. If the commander is making himself understood through waypoints and the odd text order, it can be good enough to win games.

    That might have been more like four cents. Oh well...chalk it up to inflation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

      Perhaps the rule wouldn't be that commanders must use a microphone, but that any commander without a microphone must exit the chair if a player with a microphone wishes to replace him.

      Thoughts?
      Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

      Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

        I think its a great idea wyz... but its going to be rather hard to enforce..

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

          I like the idea with mic'd players having priority over non-mic'd players.

          Also wondering, what about players whom are believed to be capable of using their microphone but are not for any purpose. (i.e. im on vent with the honey) =P

          The 'Vote to eject commander' thing could be used for most of these purposes, but I've found that dosent work very well.

          I say we require a reasonable amount of communication from the CC, not simply waypoints.
          RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

          Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

          I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

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          • #6
            Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

            Whether or not they actually have a mic is irrelevant, it's whether they are actively using it while commanding that matters.

            I voted yes. "Nobody else wanted to" should be the only reason for someone without a mic to get in the chair because they simply aren't capable of communicating actively without sacrificing comm duties and responsiveness. I am hesitant to say that someone who commed in this situation should be forced out by the first person with a mic who is willing, though. It doesn't really seem fair, and comm switches rarely work out well for the team anyway. Also, without a solid way of making this rule very clear to people and enforcing it, it'll just create arguments and upset people more than actually help anything.

            I think that admins and temp admins should have the ability to single-handedly remove a commander whether or not this goes into effect, though.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

              I've seen games where someone without a mic DOMINATED! And he never even typed until the end of the game... man that was a gg :)


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                1) Random Player A is new to the server. S/he has a microphone.
                2) Adj's microphone was broken last night in a fit of fury over an incident in which he was welded to death as fade.
                3) Player A says they're an uber-leet comm, and they want to comm.
                4) Adj has already typed "ill do it, but my mic is broke for now"
                5) Wyzcrak: "You know the rules para. You can comm Player A"
                6) Player A proceeds to drop 2 IPs and a TF, and put 25 turrets in Marine Start, followed by turret farming every node s/he manages to get (about 2). An arms lab is never dropped.
                7) Aliens proceed to stomp the **** out of marines the rest of the game.
                8) Adj: "gg no mic rule"

                This should apply to regulars only if anything. A random player, or even someone who's not somewhat familiar, shouldn't be able to dropkick someone out of the chair because they have a mic. I could comm an entire game and win without using a single form of communication except waypoints if I wanted to. It's actually more fun to try it that way, to see if you can tell 6 people how to get around the map using only markers on their HUD.

                Edit: I voted No, but if what I stated above applies, change 1 No to a Yes.
                Edit 2: The above situational did not happen. It was purely a negative situational that could result from the rule being polled being enforced.

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                • #9
                  Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                  Good feedback. No time to react now. Keep it coming. I'll post thoughts later.

                  By the way, don't feel bad Adj. I'm a billy bad ass with the weldar.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                    DAMN You beat me to it. /me cries

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                      In my heart, I know that I want every commander to have a microphone, and to use it actively.

                      But as a rule? Nah, that's silly. Let the gods that are criticism and peer-pressure work their magic, and the mic-less comm will soon be a memory.
                      [volun2]
                      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                        Heh. The mic-less comm is a memory. A very strong one. From the last three days.

                        I want thought about admins and temp admins being able to remove commanders. Give me feedback on that, guys. Pros and cons. Necessary? Ripe for abuse and anger?
                        Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                        Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                          Some thoughts:
                          - Not having a mic doesn't mean you can't dominate as a commander. However, are your marines having as much fun?
                          - Even if we have rules, do they always need to be enforced, particularly given the situation Adj describes? (PS. dude, you've got to calm down. Mics aren't cheap) On the other hand, if we give that JoeRandomNewbie a chance to comm (and fail), it only costs us one (probably fast) game to find out he sucks. After that, he won't comm again.
                          - Maybe the "right" thing to do here is to better define the pecking order when it comes to comming, rather than saying something about mics. Maybe say something like "members and regs can give newbs the boot if they want to, but only in early game". Enforcement via temp-ban or whatever.
                          - Personally, I don't really think this is a problem. Pretty much anytime I've really wanted to comm a specific game, I've gotten the chair. Most of the time we get a mic-less comm is when nobody volunteers. Basically, if you want the chair, call it early via text, and again via-voicecomm as soon as the game starts, and I don't think we'll have problems.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                            I hate playing with a non communitcative comm. Period. I don't care if he kicks the ever-lovin-crap out of the aliens. I don't care if I ever win another NS game, I like to play the game. Just running around trying to guess what the comm wants is just a waste of time. But, maybe a bit less of a waste than trying to have fun without a comm... ?

                            I shudder to think about the implications of some 30-step arbitration process to decide who gets to comm.

                            How bout a plugin that allows the marine team to vote-kick a comm out of the chair, a la amx_votemap or something. Perhaps a [temp]admin starts the vote, either by being on a marine team that has the forcefully crappy comm, or from the alien team and being informed via the usual methods (asay still not working, btw....). Then the entire marine team can vote quickly, not the drawn out 15 minute wait for the usual game of "kick the comm", while the aliens take all the resnodes.

                            That way, we could have the rule of no non-mic'ed comms, but let the team enforce it, thus allowing adj to comm sans mic instead of NSPlayer with mic. Sounds like Wyz has a lot of work to do, he better get started.... :D

                            I know this requirements gathering session has flowed into implementation (a common problem in my line of work :) ), but sometimes with out an idea of enforcement, it seems silly to make rules because of the implications that adj presents.
                            --
                            CaveDog
                            "Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Require a Mic of Commanders?

                              My personal opinion:

                              Communication is necessary in the TG system of play, that's true. Although communication can be done by talking to one and other, handing out accurate waypoints and typing commands quickly can be nearly just as viable as actually talking to players over voice comms.

                              I'd say "no" to that rule. There are a multitude of players who can command better and faster through waypoints and typing alone (in pubs and clanmatches) and there are those who can't. Personally I despise a commander who is constantly talking over the voice comms. There are people who don't, but alot of them tend to edge towards constantly blabbering instead of handing out short and practical commands. In addition, voice comms disturb the process of listening for enemies, something that I personally value very highly, as I basically rely on audio to play the game.

                              I haven't yet met a commander on TG who didn't have a microphone and didn't use it. If I did, and he'd be able to control the game without any problems, I'd have no problems with it whatsoever, I would even prefer a "mute" comm because it allows me to listen to my surroundings and possible hear enemies approaching.
                              Microphones make it alot easier to communicate, that's definately true. However, I think it's wrong to "assume" that -not having a microphone- would mean that no communication can take place.

                              Forcing commanders to have and use a microphone would be a little over the top in my opinion. There are good sides and bad sides to voice comm usage. Communication can take place just as well without one, if the right person is in the chair, which is a different story alltogether.

                              I'm not as familiar with TG as most of you are, but I do know from personal server administration experience that losing yourself in all manner of rules leads to no good. Communication is required in TG, a very fair demand. However, I don't think that communication can only be done by microphones. People with microphones can still be bad commanders and relay the wrong information to his troops. I just think it's important to see that;
                              1. Not having a microphone doesn't necessarily mean that there cannot be proper communication in a game.
                              2. And that having and using a microphone by default means that there will be a proper level of communication.

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