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  • How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

    There is a time after which the marines are screwed because their commanding simply isn't communicating, be it with the keyboard or over the microphone. At what moment has that happened, and what can we do as players and [temp]admins to prevent it withOUT being rude to the commander in the chair?

    Throw out all ideas, no matter how unorthodox. We'll agree on something.
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

    We start a fund, and with that fund, we buy plane tickets and wet noodles, and we ship _Ender_ all over the world to whip said people. In order for the fund to be self-sustaining, we may need to invest in a digital camera as well.

    ...

    On a more serious note:
    The moment that you realize that your comm isn't communicating as much as he should be is the same moment that your team just set off downt he path of (usually) no return. The keys can be different: a realizaton that had the comm been watching MT and speaking, you wouldn't have died sneaking that phase gate up, when you realize that you're off doing something and have no clue where the rest of your team is... the list goes on.

    It's rough stemming a perception of rudeness, because the most suitable answer is telling the non-communicative comm how we choose to play here, which is tantamount to telling them that what they're doing sucks. Couch it how you will to minimize the rudeness, but it's all the same, really.

    My suggestion is to write off the game that's stinking as a learning experience for the silent one, and to chat later about it.
    [volun2]
    NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
    Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
    <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
    <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

    Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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    • #3
      Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

      If a comm is being a llama, eject. Its really the only way. If he's just bad at communication, suggest he practice some other time. You may have to eject if he's stubborn but its a small price to pay (and its really not that hard).

      Mainly its comms who get in, start building more crap than needed, recycle it, then leave. They all need to be whooped, or just banned.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

        Although no single player is the same, I'll divide them into a groups of commanders that I've set for myself. I'll try to describe my view of the solution to each of them shortly and clearly.

        Non-communicative comm #1:
        He runs towards the chair and then there's a long period of... nothing...
        After 30 seconds an IP suddenly appears, 30 seconds after that a tf, after that a comm chair, etc. (you get the idea I guess). Let's assume this person is a completely new player:
        - ask if he knows the game
        - ask him to let his team help him
        - if he fails to respond in any sensible way, eject/manual F4.

        Non-communicative comm #2:
        He gets in the chair, usually yells something like "Yo n00bs, lez g0" and rapidly drops an ip and an armory. He gives some orders, people move out and he frantically starts cursing and bashing his keyboard every time a player dies and ensues with name calling. Here we have the typical case of "Ze uptight tooshy queen". Usually has a decent knowledge of the game, but doesn't listen to the team and only follows one rigid game plan. This all leads to a huge amount of frustration on both sides of the marine team:
        - say that the team is trying their best, shouting will do no good and try to regroup all the players and put some good effort into making it a solid game.
        - if he fails to loosen up a little and carries on shouting and raving about how one player can't handle 3 skulks, kindly ask him to calm down for the very last time.
        - eject, etc.

        Then there are comms who try their best, who communicate, but who simply aren't good at comming (me!!! :D). Just try to help them by showing them the comming ropes and giving helpfull hints and tips!

        Next to that are the insanely great comms who can inspire their teams to accomplish amazing feats in a game of ns. We all love them and we should cherish them dearly.

        "Well wel ThinG, that's all nice and dandy, but will there be an end to your silly rambling?"
        Yes!

        Basically, if a comm is not communicating properly, be it through complete silence or through bad social skills or any other appointable reason, the logical solution would be to try and get through to them. Staying polite and friendly (if possible), or just pointing out what they are doing wrong from the TG point of view in the most socially acceptable manner you can accomplish. If they fail to respond to that in a positive manner, what is there to be done but to eject/kick/etc? If a commander doesn't accept help from his team, doesn't answer to any questions asked by "TG'ers" (to define the typical friendly player), doesn't choose to learn and just does whatever he wants to, there's not much one can do.

        There will always be new players, if they are sensible people, they will come to the TG server, read the rules on the website (or in the game) and then say that they're new in-game and they'll accept the help and tips that will most likely be given to them in abundance. If they remain silent, run about wildly, keep asking for shotguns consistently, ignoring the team after they've been offered help and then leave when they don't get their way or spoil the game for others, I don't think that they belong on the TG server. They should go to a different server and learn after an extended period of playing that they were wrong when they first started out, and then start playing the game properly (in an ideal world).

        If people aren't new and do all of the things mentioned above, then they have obviously not read the rules or posess the spirit to play on the TG server.

        What else is there to do than: 1. Offer to help them in a friendly manner 2. Try to communicate with them, and if that fails 3. deal with them so that other people can have fun playing the game.

        I would consider being rude to someone like that by saying "OMFG you n00b ass comm, get the smidge out of that chair and stfu you idiot". Therefore, I don't think that ejecting/kicking/etc someone, after friendly offering to help them and trying to communicate with them, to be all that rude :).

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        • #5
          Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

          Originally posted by ThinG
          What else is there to do than: 1. Offer to help them in a friendly manner 2. Try to communicate with them, and if that fails 3. deal with them so that other people can have fun playing the game.

          I would consider being rude to someone like that by saying "OMFG you n00b ass comm, get the smidge out of that chair and stfu you idiot". Therefore, I don't think that ejecting/kicking/etc someone, after friendly offering to help them and trying to communicate with them, to be all that rude :).
          I like this.
          Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

          Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

            Crappy comming != Non Communicative comm. Set that up right away. Several regulars here try their hand at comming, and they're not super awesome at it. But they communicate. At least they're trying. I don't say a word because it's just people learning. Comms that dont' communicate are worse than having no commander at all. At least without a permanent comm you keep all your res, so someone who eventually gets in the chair can spend it. If they dont' respond to anyone, or respond yet still don't communicate, get them out the chair, either by ejecting or some other method. I don't see how we need anything besides a rule that says "If you're a comm, communicate or get out". Since people get kicked for "not communicating" right now, I don't see how we really need a rule at all.

            Edit: The point the game has been thrown because of a non-communicative comm is right away, because them not saying what they want allows aliens free reign. That = gg right away.

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            • #7
              Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

              Originally posted by TheAdj`
              Crappy comming != Non Communicative comm. Set that up right away.
              Is that a typo? Is it true that Non-Communicative Comm == Crappy comming? I would think so, though that isn't necessarily the same thing as your quote above (all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are sqaures?).

              Originally posted by TheAdj`
              Since people get kicked for "not communicating" right now, I don't see how we really need a rule at all.
              I was thinking of this when I created the topic. ThinG's comments are right on, perhaps. It's just technique in swiftly, objectively, and politely applying a rule we already have.
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                Originally posted by TheAdj`
                The point the game has been thrown because of a non-communicative comm is right away, because them not saying what they want allows aliens free reign. That = gg right away.
                One of several reasons this can be incorrect is if something (any number of things) happens on the alien team to create, for perhaps very different reasons, a similarly-damning deterrant to teamwork early in the game.
                Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                  I should have made that clearer. I'm saying that being a crappy commander doesn't mean you lack communication skills. There are many non-communicative comms that aren't good at commanding.

                  Edit: On any given game Wyz, having a non-communicative comm throws the game right away because they're not pressing the aliens or at least responding to them well. A comm normally calls out both the hive and nodes the aliens have. It's hard to attack them fast enough to get them down early game when the comm doesn't say jack. Saying "the aliens can have deterrents too" doesn't make the comms lack of communication a reason the game isn't thrown right away.

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                  • #10
                    Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                    Understood. I think we can handle crappy comms, as long as they're communicating. Ala Cave's comments, few things suck the fun out of marine gameplay faster than a comm who doesn't communicate, regardless of his skill in the sky.
                    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                      The only way a non-communicative comm can win a game is for the *entire* rest of the marine team to *know* what to do and have the comm respond appropriately. That is - they know to hit the alien nodes, know to sneak phase gates in, know when to hold and siege, etc. All that the comm needs to do is keep the upgrades flowing at the right time, and drop stuff when it's necessary. (Most good players will know map to map exactly where the alien rt are likely to be once they know where the hive is).

                      A true statement: "A *Non-Reponsive commander* is the worst kind of commander."
                      Another true statement: "A *Non-Communicative commander* may or may not be a bad commander based on what they're *doing*."

                      A comm is really only as good as their marines. Some comms can inspire a marine team to heights beyond what they might otherwise be capable of - but these are rare.
                      Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

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                      • #12
                        Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                        Go to the comms house and pour water on his head and pc... that will work :P

                        Seriously, I agree with Thing


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                        • #13
                          Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                          Eject them, flay their skin from their corpse, decapitate, and hike the mutilated body on a pike and charge into combat using it as your standard. :icon26:

                          Or if no war-pikes are available you can always just warn, get a team eject and/or kick them.

                          All other suggestions previously are viable as well.

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                          • #14
                            Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                            Someone will have to make a decision each time something like this occurs, if someone dosent communicate, and someone whom we KNOW will do better would like to, I think they should have that option.
                            RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

                            Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

                            I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

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                            • #15
                              Re: How to deal with commanders who don't communicate?

                              Well 5 of us were on a marine team last night, and our comm didn't type or say anything. We asked if he had a mic, no response, so it was assumed he did not. So one of our players (Yack I think?...) stuck around marine start and verbally told the comm what to do (without the use of the comm POV, good job :) ).. It was a slow defeat for us, and a bit annoying due to the lack of communicaiton from the comm, and the fact we had a good player on the sidelines telling the comm, what to do...

                              The bugger is, when the game ended and we were all the ready room, our comm started talking about the game - using his microphone... :icon_roll:
                              Last edited by Syn; 07-14-2004, 09:22 AM.
                              |TG|Syn - [defense] :row__572:

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