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note about unchained

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  • #16
    Re: note about unchained

    I was thinking about this the other day, and I kept thinking about the pub games where we are getting sieged at hive 1, with no chance to close the gap, and I am sitting with about 15 res. I was thinking what if I could evolve leap maybe to get closer to the enemy, maybe to get a couple of kills, maybe not. I came up with the idea of unchained hive abilities

    this is the basic model which is always subject to change

    Basically as a lifeform, you can sacrifice your hive 1 ability for a res cost, and choose a higher one. For example gorges can evolve bilebomb or webs, for a resource cost, but would have to sacrifice healspray in return. Hive 0 abilities would always be locked, meaning you could never sacrifice them. Skulks could get Xeno at hive 1, but it would have to cost a lot of res. Imagine a lerk going early offensive with primal scream? How often do the hive 3 abilities get seriously used other than a gag? Giving choices allows the tactic hungry community a chance to show off their creativity, not just skill.

    I think this would unlock a floodgate's worth of tactics and strategies behind the hives, and would also still make it crucial to fight over hives, because the chambers would still be chained to them.

    Make the cost expensive enough so that if they keep dying it adds up quickly, but not so costly that one mistake can screw you, or the team over.

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    • #17
      Re: note about unchained

      Xenocide 10 seconds into the game?

      Think about it:
      1. Skulks start with 25 res.
      2. 3 skulks burn X res to get xeno
      3. they rush marine start
      4. lvl 0 armor marines die.
      5. Game over

      With 4 skulks hitting marine start in this way I can almost bet 100% on a win unless the marines get lucky and camp base. And they had better be damn good shots to kill two skulks going xeno.

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      • #18
        Re: note about unchained

        In a 6v6, four skulks taking the time and resources to get xenocide, then take the time to get to marine spawn and "blow up" would really damage the alien team effort. Those marines are going to respawn for free, and oher marines will have had a free run of the map in the meantime, meaning the aliens will have lost early critical res (as well as opportunities to cap nodes and keep the marines from doing so) while marines have spent time capping res nodes.

        I like the idea FW, for its creativity if nothing else.

        I liked your comment about a community with high creativity potential.
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        • #19
          Re: note about unchained

          Originally posted by TheFeniX
          Xenocide 10 seconds into the game?

          Think about it:
          1. Skulks start with 25 res.
          2. 3 skulks burn X res to get xeno
          3. they rush marine start
          4. lvl 0 armor marines die.
          5. Game over

          With 4 skulks hitting marine start in this way I can almost bet 100% on a win unless the marines get lucky and camp base. And they had better be damn good shots to kill two skulks going xeno.

          Whats the difference between that strategy and a shotgun rush?

          Its an all or nothing strat and will NOT work 100% of the time. Unchaining the abilities allows the aliens to create strategies like that, instead of restricting them to the D-M-S system.

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          • #20
            Re: note about unchained

            Rushing with early xeno would only work against marine teams that not only never built an IP, but are also all still sitting in their spawn. Otherwise they'd just keep spawning and the aliens would lose half their starting res.

            I like the idea, though the Fade wouldn't be able to use it at all... Also, the res cost would have to be fairly substantial. You should put it on I&S.

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            • #21
              Re: note about unchained

              Originally posted by Zek
              though the Fade wouldn't be able to use it at all...
              Sure a fade could - but who would want to give up blink?!


              Now that I've read the posts on NS.org -- how about this?

              can build any number of chambers and can build any chambers at any hive level, and you're given three upgrade points per hive. You can spend them any way you choose. Suppose you have three of each chamber at hive 1- then you can get: 1 regen, 1 carapace, and 1 SoF. or 2 cara and 1 adren. Or three focus. More of a mix-and match situation. Two hives - you get three more points and can get say: 2 cara, 2 regen, 1 adren, 1 cloaking (assuming you have 4 d chambers). whatever.

              Normal rules apply - if you've only got two of a chamber you can only spend two points on that chamber's ups TOTAL - not two points in each of two different upgrades.
              Last edited by Stupid; 09-30-2004, 05:55 PM.
              Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

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              • #22
                Re: note about unchained

                Originally posted by Stupid
                Sure a fade could - but who would want to give up blink?!


                Now that I've read the posts on NS.org -- how about this?

                can build any number of chambers and can build any chambers at any hive level, and you're given three upgrade points per hive. You can spend them any way you choose. Suppose you have three of each chamber at hive 1- then you can get: 1 regen, 1 carapace, and 1 SoF. or 2 cara and 1 adren. Or three focus. More of a mix-and match situation. Two hives - you get three more points and can get say: 2 cara, 2 regen, 1 adren, 1 cloaking (assuming you have 4 d chambers). whatever.

                Normal rules apply - if you've only got two of a chamber you can only spend two points on that chamber's ups TOTAL - not two points in each of two different upgrades.

                very interesting. I have always tried to think of a scenario in which you could use more of a single chambers' upgrade at a time in classic ns. That would be a good balance.

                I don't like the spending res for abilities, seems like the n00bs and lam0xrz would skrew their teams even more than res whoring. Why would you ever use xeno? except at the end of a game, as a "gag". Good creative idea tho.
                --
                CaveDog
                "Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

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                • #23
                  Re: note about unchained

                  Originally posted by CaveDog
                  I don't like the spending res for abilities, seems like the n00bs and lam0xrz would skrew their teams even more than res whoring. Why would you ever use xeno? except at the end of a game, as a "gag". Good creative idea tho.
                  While the situations for something like an early game xeno are rare, it could be a good way to break up an early marine push. Maybe not the most effective way, or whatever, but still useable. Xeno is deadly against no upgrade marines.

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                  • #24
                    Re: note about unchained

                    As The Adj said, I think unchained chambers would at the present time unbalance the game in favor of the aliens. However, to combat this problem there has to be some feasible way to give the marines a little budge in versatility as well. I don't know what attribute you could add to the fairly vanilla marine that fits the criteria but bounce this one around once. They could add some radio command, similar to the calls for meds which pop up a symbol on the coms screen. The marine radios in "For the greater good" or something cheesy like that then the com recycles the marine and he explodes for xenos damage (I don’t know what the damage scale should be…. Maybe the less health the marine has the more damage he explodes for). Just an idea, but I think that with unchained chambers it could work. That doomed wandering marine noob could potentially become the instrument of destruction for some very unlucky aliens.
                    "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

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                    • #25
                      Re: note about unchained

                      I think attaching scan to marines (ala CO) would do well. For my money, there's almost nothing more dramatic about CO than when your scan goes off... and you STILL don't see anything.

                      That added to NS would be wicked cool, and serve to counterbalance some of the balance issues unchained brings.
                      [volun2]
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