Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

theory: why is the clan scene dying?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • theory: why is the clan scene dying?

    In business, substitution is often your greatest threat: if what you're offering is easily replaced by your customer through business with other merchants, your customer service better be competitive. If what you're offering is NOT easily replaced, but your target market thinks it IS, you've got a BIGGER problem.. a MUCH bigger problem.

    Never before have I read an explanation of the "dying" NS competitive scene that explained the cause as a lack of rareness with regard to the playstyle. Especially as Game Officer of Natural Selection at Tactical Gamer, I found the following very interesting. If its playstyle is not sufficiently unique to drive players into the competitive scene, the customer service of the "clanners" had better be top-notch. Given the public (and fairly-earned, even if antiquated) reputation of competitive players, they've got an uphill battle if "customer service" is all that stands to majoritively differentiate their offering from public play. Sure, most public servers can't be compared to competitive play, but if many CAN be compared to competitive play, AND those servers are more likely to already have a grip on the very INTELLIGENT public players that are the very target market of competitive players seeking to recruit, how does this affect recruitment?
    Originally posted by Ness-Earthbound
    My own theory on the clan scene doing so terribly in NS is that while other mods require competitive play to get a feeling of teamwork and accomplishment with fellow players (This is what I have found and heard throughout my years of HL gaming), Natural Selection did a very good job of incorporating this into "normal" games. There's no real drive to go to the competitive scene when one can already find teamwork in a normal game of NS, unless they wish to be in the spotlight or be recognized within certain circles as being a good player.

    The generally sour attitudes that the competitive community is known for (and many will readily admit that it exists and is an issue) really kills off any interest in joining such a community. There isn't much incentive for clanning beyond fame and all of that business, when many people are getting the teamwork and comraderie they require out of normal matches. I've found this feeling on the majority of the servers I have played on over these past two years, so I really can't accept any "Pubs are dumb and have no teamwork" generalizations used to explain why people clan.

    I guess your best bet would be to find an actual reason for people to play competitively. Pubs having no teamwork and all of that obviously isn't working (Probably, once again, because many do), and stating that competitive play is better isn't working (People want to know why), so try and think of a good honeypot. My own stereotype of sour attitudes among clanners comes from my own experiences and those of others I've talked to, so I apologise if you've experienced differently (Or maybe I'm just ignorant). Saying that, somehow have people act nicer.
    Would many of us be in competitive play if leaving NS were not an option and our server (or one like it) also were not an option?
    Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

  • #2
    Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

    I think the customer service aspect of the competitive scene IS improving. Things like NSLearn don't exist in other games, and it's driven by the complex nature of NS. The community is improving, people just find it easier to blame vets for everything, it's easier than recognizing the truth. I may be an arrogant ass sometimes, but I help anytime I'm asked and go out of my way to do things for the community. That's the heart of NS Competitive Play, improving others so everyone gets to have a fun, skilled, thrilling game. Nothing beats the thrill of a hard-earned win (or loss even). I just played a scrim that was totally screwed up, we lost, but had some good fun (did a movement strat, hive dropped dropped an RT instead at the start on accident, fade went lerk on accident). We lost but it was crazy fun trying to recover. Competitive play is about hard work, communication, and individual's skills meshing so there is no gap in abilities. When it happens it's absolute domination (as anyone watching the exi vs co match saw first-hand). When it doesn't, you have poorer games. Pub games have more communication than any other game, but PALE in comparison to competitive play. Rarely in pub play will you ever even approach the level of teamplay you have in a top level or even mid level clan match, anyone that says otherwise hasn't played or even seen a top level match and actually analyzed it. There is more to teamwork than dropping what the team needs, or listening to your team. Innate teamwork turns a team into an individual, not a bunch of individuals functioning as a group. People move in sync and attack from all sides simultaneously, without communication or saying a word beyond "GO". It is a level of unquestioning loyalty and communication that no pub can ever match. When I say something in a match, it happens without another word being said. If it doesn't, whoever it is that didn't listen had best have a very good explanation, and even if they do they'll still get chided for not saying they hadn't accomplished what I asked yet. Pub play will never achieve this level teamplay, they simply lack the experience and skill of a team of competitive players. Even random competitive players can't accomplish this, they simply don't know the other players well enough. Playing in PTs is very frustrating to me right now because I expect much of what I'd expect in a clan match, but it isn't happening at all. Random players need to realize that competitive players are experts in the field of NS, in all aspects of it. Take advantage of the knowledge they possess and READILY share with anyone who asks. People in the top eschelons of other games keep their knowledge horded and never share it, consider it a previlege that it's shared openly with nothing asked in return except the respect for the people who give it and the courtesy of that respect by the random player who recieves it. CS players make people pay cash for their knowledge, we give it openly. Never forget that. The reason a lot of competitive players have bad attitudes is they are under a lot of stress in competitive play, and random pubbers give them a lot of **** too, for no reason. So they play in matches and scrims all week, work on stuff way beyond what pubs can ever accomplish, then go to pub and work off some steam. They kill about 25 skulks and get banned for aimbotting by some ignorant admin who doesn't notice the 25 skulks ran in a straight line at a marine, which is pretty much insta-gib. It's a ridiculous cycle that never ends.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

      On my keyboard, below the backslash and above the right shift, is a key I often use to parse my thoughts out into "paragraphs". :)

      Adj's point notwithstanding, I still think the argument made by Ness-Earthbound and Wyz stand pretty tall. Clans in other games are the cream of the crop, sure, but they're also generally the ONLY outlet for organized play -- "how the game is supposed to be played", if you will. NS's game design (more than other online games, at least) lends itself to organization despite disparate players, and as such, a passable game of NS is generally easier to come across than one of say, TFC.

      With that being true, in NS, there's an outlet for people like me -- those who want to play the game how it was meant to be played, but don't want to work too hard at it. :) The gap for other games doen't have the same bridge that NS presently enjoys in this regard, and hence, a comparably enhanced clan scene filled with bonus people like myself who want a quality game and CAN'T get it on a public server of any kind.

      I mean hell, think about how many (actual, competitve) clanners we have on TG. Think about the number that joined a clan AFTER coming to TG. I'm pretty sure I can count that second number on one hand.
      [volun2]
      NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
      Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
      <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
      <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

      Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

        I agree with the above. I would say (in general) the appeal of TFC clan play is that it is almost a completely different game. The appeal of CS is that the skill level is vastly higher and individual players get the recognition they want. In NS clan play it is a very similar game to pubbing and individual skill doesn't shine through much as it is a team effort.

        The downsides of clanning are numerous, and in the case of NS I guess they don't outweigh the advantages for many people.
        Wintermute

        Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

          The reason you can say clan and pub play are even remotely similar in NS is because you haven't experienced a real clanmatch, not a scrim against some random omega clan. Watch Exigent vs Terror next weekend, it will be an amazing match not only because of the incredible skill of both sides, but because of the unmatched teamwork. The teams quite literally function as one player. Two skulks will be hitting nodes while 3 fades pound marines and their base, and the lerk flies around scouting and taking down lone marines. Pub play can never approach that level of response, to where you say something and it's already happening as soon as you say it. It's organized perfection, and nothing ever matches it.

          It's not hard to have an organized match in NS, you pretty much have to in order to do anything. Like most good games though, it's easy to learn and difficult to master. Mastering teamplay takes the strength, dedication, and experience of competitive play, not a pub, the players simply don't give as much as a competitive team will.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

            Let's agree that there's a notable difference between competitive teamplay and casual teamplay.

            Is there, then, an insufficient difference between casual teamplay and the level of teamplay most NS players demand?

            Is this a case of people simply not caring about 21" monitors because they really are pretty happy with their 19" monitor? I mean, sure, 21" monitors are nice, but it's just not worth the extra cost for the extra experience?

            Is it a case where, while there IS more intense teamplay available, there just isn't the demand? Are people satisfied with casual teamplay (the likes of which this server -- and others like it -- offer)? Or perhaps they're not (satisfied) but prefer what they have over the drama, stress, and cold, unforgiving judgement that is the NS competitive community (we're talking perception here, not fact)?

            If that's the case, how do you lessen the perceived effort/cost/headache of making the transition into competitive play?
            Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

            Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

              I liked this typo:

              Originally posted by Scylla
              Newbies whine Veterans adept
              Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

              Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

                would the typo be the missing word "are" or the e instead of the a? Cuz they both seem to work for me....
                Prejudice sucks:
                Do not judge me by my past, for I have changed.

                DarkHunter == Blackjackel.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: theory: why is the clan scene dying?

                  "adapt" to "adept", the former being a verb and the latter being an adjective. Both apply to veterans who deserve the title, rare though they may be.
                  Steam Community? Add me. | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

                  Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.

                  Comment

                  Connect

                  Collapse

                  TeamSpeak 3 Server

                  Collapse

                  Advertisement

                  Collapse

                  Twitter Feed

                  Collapse

                  Working...
                  X